What do you guys think is the best CCR

[caveseeker7]

I won't dive Navy tables straight. I won't dive a Lar5 to the depths the Navy does. Why on earth would I follow there guidelines for there gear?

Because there is a difference with between naval operations and naval testing?
When testing tables and DCS, you seem to trust the Navy's results enough that you won't dive those pofiles.

It's the same with everything else. If you're in the market for an SMG, the MP5 is among the the best money can buy. Just because you don't use it the way the military does doesn't make the weapon any less good. Just because you won't take your boat out into storms doesn't make the Coast Guards 44 footer a bad boat. Whenever those come up for sale people jump on them because they do have a safety margin over recreational designs.

As I said before, plenty of items on the Navy's checklist don't concern civilian divers, like magnetic signature. On the other hand data like setpoint control, WOB and scrubber duration are important to everyone diving a rebreather.

And, you actually believe that a test now on a Meg on a different machine is going to be reliable to compare to a Machine tested years ago by the Navy?

I don't. It would be a waste of time to compare the 2 figures.

The reason there are test protocols in place is so that tests are comparative and repeatable. Will it be 100%? Probably not, but it should be fairly close. Not all cars are tested on the same day and the same machine either, do you trust the manufacturer's horse power figures? Or, back to rebreathers, do you trust you manufacturer's scrubber rating? Chances are you use a different batch of absorbant on a different day than and in different conditions than they did ... .

The only reason comparing Navy and CE results is pretty much a waste is because they're done to different protocols. Think net and gross horsepower ratings for example. But comparing results from one protocol with results from the same standard should give reasonably accurate information.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

I have been diving a Dive Rite Optima since January, and I am very pleased with it. It uses a horizontal canister and shorter hoses. So, it has a very low WOB. Also, it uses Extend Air cartridges instead of granular scrubber material. This produces consistently even WOB throughout the dive and virtually eliminates the chances of caustic cocktails.

 

[mania]

Why is it that you would believe this is the best CCR on the market?

As I stated at the beginning I know nothing about CCRs. The part which i translated is not from the webpage I gave the link but from a post of its user. They have the latest model that is not yet shown on the webpage.
And because I know nothing about CCRs but I know guys that are using this one and this is what they said. And they do know a bit about CCRs. So I rely on them.

Mania

 

[Mverick]

Because there is a difference with between naval operations and naval testing?
When testing tables and DCS, you seem to trust the Navy's results enough that you won't dive those pofiles.

It's the same with everything else. If you're in the market for an SMG, the MP5 is among the the best money can buy. Just because you don't use it the way the military does doesn't make the weapon any less good. Just because you won't take your boat out into storms doesn't make the Coast Guards 44 footer a bad boat. Whenever those come up for sale people jump on them because they do have a safety margin over recreational designs.

As I said before, plenty of items on the Navy's checklist don't concern civilian divers, like magnetic signature. On the other hand data like setpoint control, WOB and scrubber duration are important to everyone diving a rebreather.


The reason there are test protocols in place is so that tests are comparative and repeatable. Will it be 100%? Probably not, but it should be fairly close. Not all cars are tested on the same day and the same machine either, do you trust the manufacturer's horse power figures? Or, back to rebreathers, do you trust you manufacturer's scrubber rating? Chances are you use a different batch of absorbant on a different day than and in different conditions than they did ... .

The only reason comparing Navy and CE results is pretty much a waste is because they're done to different protocols. Think net and gross horsepower ratings for example. But comparing results from one protocol with results from the same standard should give reasonably accurate information.

Yep, for smg it would be a MP5. Or would it. Ever have a HK MK23 in your hand. Built and tested for spec ops. Nobody wants it. It's a brick to carry.

G3 was built like a tank and works great. Guess what. Didn't need Navy testing or any other for that. Built for other militaries. AK 47 too. And they both make the AR-15 look like a piece of junk. They're are Sniper G3's. PSG-1. AK's too... So, military tested the piece of junk AR-15 and got just what they wanted. Something that needs to be kept clean in the field or it jams. AK47 you can bury in mud. Pull out hose it off and it will shoot. Same with a G3. A lot of people died because of the wrong testing of the AR. Think it might be a little political too???? Maybe a lot of Pockets being filled with kickbacks?????? Killed a lot of people because of it too...

So, I'm not all that impressed with military testing. In fact. I think they are the worst at testing things period. They can't even do it right for there military applications.

And do I trust HP figures from car manufacturers. Nope. They are always wrong. One car to another. HP is different. And Car manufacs have lied about it before to get around Insurance companies. Run it on a rear wheel dyno down the street it's one HP. Run it on another in another town. Same brand. It's different.

Only way to test one car against another is on the same machine. On the same day. At the same time. Ask people who run the hardware. They'll tell you that.

And once again, saying a 5year old or older test on one machine is going to come close to one on a machine now. You're info is going to be junk. Drawing any conclusions would be ridiculous.

So, I wouldn't brag about Navy testing. Because that puts the Prism in company with the HK 23, Ar-15, Vstol v22 osprey. Wonderfull testing results. Oh, MP5 was out for other militaries too. Not just us.

Test on same machine, same day. Only way to get reliable results.

 

[wedivebc]

I have been diving a Dive Rite Optima since January, and I am very pleased with it. It uses a horizontal canister and shorter hoses. So, it has a very low WOB. Also, it uses Extend Air cartridges instead of granular scrubber material. This produces consistently even WOB throughout the dive and virtually eliminates the chances of caustic cocktails.

Hey Dad, did you do your training with Mike at Protec?

 

[caveseeker7]

Well then Mverick, I hope you go out, buy one of each rebreather, and have them all tested.
Because I rather doubt that the manufacturers will get together to have it done on the same day and the same machine. They can't even sit down together for a dinner and few beers, it's been tried.

As for the G3, in my experience getting any dirt into it is rather detrimental to it's performance. The German's have a way with metal, may it be gunns or cars, but the tight tolerances of their engineering and manufacture sure doesn't work well when dirty.

 

[Warren_L]

you will find that whatever unit people have - they will say its the best, same as oc its all personal.

i have an evo btw, its the best unit
there is about an 11 month waiting list for them an all so they either build them real slow or they have a good package.

I have an evo as well, and the waiting list is down to a couple of months or less. That's how long it took me to get my unit.

 

[Mverick]

Well then Mverick, I hope you go out, buy one of each rebreather, and have them all tested.
Because I rather doubt that the manufacturers will get together to have it done on the same day and the same machine. They can't even sit down together for a dinner and few beers, it's been tried.

As for the G3, in my experience getting any dirt into it is rather detrimental to it's performance. The German's have a way with metal, may it be gunns or cars, but the tight tolerances of their engineering and manufacture sure doesn't work well when dirty.

Owned about 30 G3's. Still have the first one. I don't clean it at all and has at least 5000 rounds through it. I have a Custom AR. It wont go through a 30rd clip. But 5 shots are tight. 1/2 at 100yds. PSG-1 is tighter. But, it's supposed to be...

Have other Ar's that make 100 rds and have to be cleaned...

NEVER did I say the manufacturers would do it. What other manufacturer do you know in any industry that tests all there gear together. I don't know any. Never said they would.

Or, if someone has a machine. Everyone send theres to them to test. Like I said. I'll do it.

They do reg tests. They do fin tests. I'm pretty sure they can do RB tests. ADM could easily do it...

DO you actually believe manufacturers claims? Navy claims have been fabricated before. Pretty regularly actually. I trust independent tests.

 

[caveseeker7]

Never had a chance to try a PSG-1, but last retail I remember was in the $10K neighborhood, so it better be tight.

Actually we've been discussing testing RBs, independently owned units, in the UK. Scrubber testing could be performed there, don't know about WOB tests. We had offerings for RBs, AP, ISC, SMI, Jetsam, but there would still be the cost of a whole lot of absorbant ... and manufacturers weren't happy when they got wind of it.

Would be fun though, actually running the units, probably over several days but on the same machine and see how they would stack up.

 

[Mverick]

Never had a chance to try a PSG-1, but last retail I remember was in the $10K neighborhood, so it better be tight.

Actually we've been discussing testing RBs, independently owned units, in the UK. Scrubber testing could be performed there, don't know about WOB tests. We had offerings for RBs, AP, ISC, SMI, Jetsam, but there would still be the cost of a whole lot of absorbant ... and manufacturers weren't happy when they got wind of it.

Would be fun though, actually running the units, probably over several days but on the same machine and see how they would stack up.

Yep, PSG-1 at $10,000. I ain't got one.. LOL... But it shoots nice. There are better for less. But, they have some pricey AR's too.. $7000 range. PSG will hold it's value better..

And, That is what I was talking about. Magazines test all kinds of gear. Why not RB's. So you get real figures. I'm not worried what the Manufacturers think. If they're worried. They're lying about something. Or fudging it.