What do you think of cave/cavern diving?

[Cave Bum]

You did not get to the Florida room on 1/6 unless you had a scooter and thats out of the question. Its a high flow system. I just did 1100ft in it last week. Its easy to pull up a map and say oh I was there.

A friend of mine did a recovery up there a few years ago and the story he tells about that demonstrates just how confused divers can be about where they are in there.

Two divers, both intro level, rented scooters and scootered back into Little River. One made it out when they silted out the cave the other didn't. When my friend was trying to do the recovery, he asked the diver who made it out "where were you when you got seperated"? The diver answered "In the Florida Room".

After not finding anything after searching the entire Florida Room, my friend surfaced and again talked to the surviving diver. He said "Okay, take it one step at a time and tell what you saw each step of the way on your dive". The diver started describing the dive and got to "... and when we scootered past the well casing...". My friend said "Okay, you weren't in the Florida Room, now I know where to look...".

The Florida Room ends at maybe 1100 feet, the well casing is about 2600 feet back. The diver just latched onto "The Florida Room" because he was promted by others asking "did you get to the Florida Room?" but really didn't have a clue as to where that really was.

They use that example now to teach recovery divers how to be careful not to "lead" witnesses when you're trying to get information.

I did a dive there Saturday and got back about 1700 feet on thirds, so I probably hit the Florida Room on sixths and last year the flow was a lot lower and it was easier to get back that far on sixths so an intro diver might have, you never can tell...

 

[MarkHerm]

I am no cave diver but since basic certification I am fascinated by caves...

Please have a look at this amazing looking cave diving video... maybe this can explain why some divers are that attracted to caves.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

DA Aquamaster, I'm gonna teach you a secret....no matter what you do in cave country, SOMEONE will disapprove, save your effort defending yourself. We're talking about a community that argues online over the color of the guidelines in Ginnie!

I got chewed out for stage diving at Apprentice, if I would have used double LP120's cave filled it would have been OK....same gas volume, fewer redundant sources of gas, but whatever.

My conclusion - It's your life, make your own educated decisions....just don't post them online if you don't want feedback.

I agree with you, It's just more common to read the type of offensive comment that was made on the deco stop.

I also agree that interpretation of various rules or beliefs is often a bit over the top and somewhat senseless. For example lots of doubles divers are quick to point out how dangerous it is for a diver to transition to doubles without proper instruction, but will then suggest to a diver that if they need more gas, use a single 130 - when the diver was originally suggesting double steel 72's that hold the same amount of gas at 2250 psi and do it with better trim in most cases.

People often know the rules, but lack an understanding of what they really mean or what purpose they serve and that bothers me a bit.

Your example of taking a stage rather than larger doubles is a good one. Now if you had skipped breathed the whole dive, no one would have commented and you could have bragged about your incredibly low SAC rate - another truely stupid practice many in the cave community seem to reward and even encourage, especially in new divers.

When diving in a team of two to thirds (we are both Full Cave) I will take a buddy bottle along to provide the addiitonal reserve that a 3rd diver woudl have brought along and at some point someone will no doubt accuse me of taking a stage without a stage course.

----

There is technically a navigational decison at the Y just before the serpentine tunnel at little river - but there is no jump and it is essentially the world's biggest line arrow pointing out, so it would be hard to screw up - especially with the obvious direction of the flow and doubly so with an instructor along.

People will agree and disagree with that - much like going into Ginnie without running a line all the way to OW. That always makes for a lively debate.

 

[brockbr]

Why dive caves?

Because there are places in caves that cannot be seen anywhere else on Earth. It is one of the few places you can experience true and utter darkness, and the solitude only a cave can afford.

I was 4,800' back at Jackson Blue a little over 24 hours ago. At the end of the line, there is an expansive room, and you enter it from the bottom - Its called the Banana Room.

Looking up, it is absolutely, mind numbingly beautiful. The cave walls have eroded over time to reveal a lip that has extremely delicate structures at their tips. The one end of this room is called the stratosphere... You deco out within the room to reach the shallow depth of close to 15 feet. There is a breakdown pile here.

Since me and my buddy were both on CCR, the ceiling was undisturbed from exhaust gases. The gases that had collected were from previous divers. It appeared to continue up, but of course the collected gases were a perfect mirror reflection of the breakdown pile.

Cave diving is like existing on a different planet. I can move in 3 dimensions, but all constrained by rock formations.

The silence, beauty, and calmness is like nothing else. To share it with a friend who simply looks on in awe right along with you, is something you can't get anywhere else. We hover together within this room checking out corners knowing that not many people get the chance to see what lays just below the surface.

Dangerous? Depends. I dive CCR, which to some would already be problematic. Team and gear intensive? You bet. Redundancy - Yes. It's like any other phases of diving - It is dangerous? Yes... But we mitigate risks with training, gear and the team.

 

[ucfdiver]

I agree with you, It's just more common to read the type of offensive comment that was made on the deco stop.

I agree, but you posted about breaking standards online, you HAD to know it was coming. You've got to remember, everyone who breaks rules has a reason in their mind that it's OK.

It was OK we were stage diving @ apprentice because we could be using LP120's instead.
It was OK you were deco'ing at basic cave because the instructor allowed it.
It's OK for another diver to do a simple jump at basic because it's an "easy passage".
It's OK for a cavern diver to do a mainline cave dive at Ginnie because it's silt free and they're going to take basic soon anyways.
It's OK for me to scooter at Ginnie because I know the cave well and I'll take a DPV course soon.
It's OK to do a blind traverse from friedmans to catfish because everyone else does it.
It's OK to dive to 1/3rds at basic because Ginnie/LR are high flow caves, so this is no different than diving to 1/6ths in peacock.

...the list goes on. Bottom line is no one breaks a rule thinking THEY are in the wrong...

It took me a while to get that through my head. Bottom line is that if you make it seem "ok" to a mass anonymous audience like the internet, you MIGHT be convincing the guy who barely passed basic cave that it's OK to break rules.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Ufc diver just said it best. You talk about breaking rules. But the disturbing part is you say an instructor was there. Do you realize they could loose their instructor cert for that if they did, and would deserve too. What you said was very irresponsible and dangerous for newer divers to read that and dont know better. . Now you say many in cave country encourage skip breathing. Where in the hell do you get your info? Most of your posts are pretty well thought out. I give you prompts for that. Dont necessarily agree with all but I do respect them. How much time are you down in this part of the country? I am averaging 115 cave dive a year and I have yet to see anyone encourage skip breathing. The only point you made I can fully agree with is myself and most I know broke a rule or two. I limited mine to basically diving 5ths and that was it. I dont know what was said to you that was offensive on TDS but I am not trying to be offensive. I just think you should know better.

I agree with you, It's just more common to read the type of offensive comment that was made on the deco stop.

I also agree that interpretation of various rules or beliefs is often a bit over the top and somewhat senseless. For example lots of doubles divers are quick to point out how dangerous it is for a diver to transition to doubles without proper instruction, but will then suggest to a diver that if they need more gas, use a single 130 - when the diver was originally suggesting double steel 72's that hold the same amount of gas at 2250 psi and do it with better trim in most cases.

People often know the rules, but lack an understanding of what they really mean or what purpose they serve and that bothers me a bit.

Your example of taking a stage rather than larger doubles is a good one. Now if you had skipped breathed the whole dive, no one would have commented and you could have bragged about your incredibly low SAC rate - another truely stupid practice many in the cave community seem to reward and even encourage, especially in new divers.

When diving in a team of two to thirds (we are both Full Cave) I will take a buddy bottle along to provide the addiitonal reserve that a 3rd diver woudl have brought along and at some point someone will no doubt accuse me of taking a stage without a stage course.

----

There is technically a navigational decison at the Y just before the serpentine tunnel at little river - but there is no jump and it is essentially the world's biggest line arrow pointing out, so it would be hard to screw up - especially with the obvious direction of the flow and doubly so with an instructor along.

People will agree and disagree with that - much like going into Ginnie without running a line all the way to OW. That always makes for a lively debate.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Oh Brock your flying the CCR again. Sounds like you had a great time. Going to get to do Indian soon?

Why dive caves?

Because there are places in caves that cannot be seen anywhere else on Earth. It is one of the few places you can experience true and utter darkness, and the solitude only a cave can afford.

I was 4,800' back at Jackson Blue a little over 24 hours ago. At the end of the line, there is an expansive room, and you enter it from the bottom - Its called the Banana Room.

Looking up, it is absolutely, mind numbingly beautiful. The cave walls have eroded over time to reveal a lip that has extremely delicate structures at their tips. The one end of this room is called the stratosphere... You deco out within the room to reach the shallow depth of close to 15 feet. There is a breakdown pile here.

Since me and my buddy were both on CCR, the ceiling was undisturbed from exhaust gases. The gases that had collected were from previous divers. It appeared to continue up, but of course the collected gases were a perfect mirror reflection of the breakdown pile.

Cave diving is like existing on a different planet. I can move in 3 dimensions, but all constrained by rock formations.

The silence, beauty, and calmness is like nothing else. To share it with a friend who simply looks on in awe right along with you, is something you can't get anywhere else. We hover together within this room checking out corners knowing that not many people get the chance to see what lays just below the surface.

Dangerous? Depends. I dive CCR, which to some would already be problematic. Team and gear intensive? You bet. Redundancy - Yes. It's like any other phases of diving - It is dangerous? Yes... But we mitigate risks with training, gear and the team.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

After my first cave dive, I quit my high paying aerospace engineering job, sold my house in Colorado and moved to North Central Florida

Haven't done any cave diving myself and personally I'm not sure if it's for me but I LOVE this attitude. Congrats, man!

 

[BTravlin]

I've tried the cenotes and am glad I did because I now know I have no interest in caves or even more cenotes. I don't see the appeal but then some people like cats too.

 

[brockbr]

Oh Brock your flying the CCR again. Sounds like you had a great time. Going to get to do Indian soon?

I spent a couple of months sorting out my sidemount rig, but still diving the rebreather a lot.

High Springs ends up being a 7 hour drive, so I only make it there a few times a year, but with Indian being closer, I might be up for that.

I've got friends in Tallahassee and down near Wakulla - We should get together and do some dives down there.

b.