What kind of scuba training do you prefer?

[matt_unique]

Part of training and experience is learning to avoid the situations that lead to problems. At the same time we need to be able to manage scenarios.

Human nature is also at play here. You don't teach someone to swim by throwing them in the water. You would be a poor instructor to make a student feel in danger but you also need them to learn a skill. I think it's a close balance that is different for every person. Some people will learn at a slower pace but it does not mean they will not reach the same level of competance as someone who learned faster or rougher.

I remember during my flight training my instructor brought me into weather that was way over my skill level to manage. Moderate turbulance, low level wind shear warnings, obviously strong winds, strong cross-wind landings, etc. That was humbling and I did not like it. If we were not belted we would have been coming off the seats. At one point on one approach (final) we had full power and could not stop our descent....the down draft obviously let up in a few seconds but that was friggin scary. The instructor did nothing until we were on final approach and I said "listen this is over my head...I need your help to land the plane". It turned out to be the best single portion of my training hands down. The lesson in two words was "nature rules and you are an idiot to think otherwise". My instructors intent was to see how long it would take for me to recognize the weather situation was beyond my skill level. That taught me to be careful and thorough with weather analysis and have the brains to say "not today".

Long story short the same applies to diving but with a twist. With my flight lesson the instructor can grab the controls and land us safely. This is not the case with diving. I believe that all diving is solo in the most basic ways. It's just a fact....at some point in panic the best instructor on the planet will not be able to control the situation. A person paniced will become super human strong and there is no way any person will be able to calm them down and they will be shooting for the surface or whatever. This is the primary danger to rough training in my opinion. For the military - go for it - but for a recreational industry this would not work in my opinion.

--Matt

 

[H2Andy]

I am astonished by people who think that, by the end of one's OW class (assuming we are talking about the kind of
OW class I had, which I have gathered is actually on the better end of what is out there) one should be capable of handling all exigencies with aplomb.

this was my initial thought. i know that my dive class did not prepare me
for this type of training.

however, i think what is being suggested is that the training be changed
so that OW class DOES prepare you for this sort of thing

 

[piikki]

I guess the answer depends at what point of the training one is. I’d have to say that doing these thrills during the OW class would have been painful even though I imagine being pretty comfortable in water myself – it’s not nice to see people scrambling. Thinking back to OW a lot of people would have really struggled with any more pressure than they had. And I tell you what, I would have really struggled if I was surprised and had to gulp that snotty community centre water too (would have resulted in a puke-through-reg – exercise).

Even though I think there are people who take the course that should drop out, I don’t think they should be scared out of their wits to leave. And there is no reason to make average-to-be-divers nervous divers instead of giving them a little time to get accustomed to the elements and equipment. For most there is enough challenge without games in the beginning, it’s no sense connecting diving with constant tension. What would you think of instructor who preaches ‘relax’ and ‘breath deep’ and in next moment rips your gear off. If it happened to me once, I’d be constantly on guard waiting for it – hyper-alert even if I knew it was educational.

I don’t know if I am really weird but we practice OOA, mask removals, gearing in water etc. about every other dive we do. I want things to become automatic, and I don’t believe they become more so in relation to the amount of water I inhale or near-panic I experience. I think these things can be safely practiced beyond crash-courses. Not denying there are some great educational tools but there is a time and place for some more aggressive methods.

However, it’s time to move on… I like challenge and am intrigued about games of any sort too. I think AOW will be my last PADI course because I just read the book and it’s so lame I just gotta look for something better. On OW I was very disappointed when our instructor said “now with NAUI I would throw your gear in the deep end and you’d need to go there with black mask and get yourself going”, and then I realized we really weren’t going to do that because ‘we were PADI’. I think I’d be ready for some tricks performed with the right attitude now. But people are different.

 

[in_cavediver]

this was my initial thought. i know that my dive class did not prepare me
for this type of training.

however, i think what is being suggested is that the training be changed
so that OW class DOES prepare you for this sort of thing

I concur wholeheartedly. Remember, after you complete OW, you are supposed to be able to dive in conditions as good as or better than you have had expierence in with no supervision. Given that, shouldn't you do drills under controlled circumstances with an instructor to help raise the level of the brown stuff prior to the onset of panic?

Mike

 

[Archer_Pensacola]

My first reaction is "H*ll no, I have enough to worry about in this strange new enviroment"

My second reaction is then "well should they teach drivers ed by randomly blowing out tires at 70 mph, or teach skydiving by giving you a bum parachute"?

The point is that for the basic OW classes I think it is best to teach you the skills but make you as comfortable and safe as possible. I am sure there are divers with thousands of dives that have never encountered a loss of tank pressure, or a missing mask. Just like police get additional training to deal with possible random driving hazards, I think, if anything, these scenarios should be reserved for an advanced specialty class.

 

[mstudley]

Not for OW but how about adding in some of this stuff to AOW and make it an actual class instead of a few dives, a c-card and you out $$$....

 

[PavoDive]

My second reaction is then "well should they teach drivers ed by randomly blowing out tires at 70 mph, or teach skydiving by giving you a bum parachute"?

:lol2: what a nice analogy!!

 

[sandjeep]

or teach skydiving by giving you a bum parachute"?

No, but you are drilled and drilled on how to deploy your reserve. Doing so incorrectly during a drill will earn you all kinds of butt chewing and pain. I'm pretty sure about this.

I'm not saying that OW should be boot camp, but there should be some intense drills and sometimes tricks (mask being pulled off from behind ect.) Not every student or instructor would be ok with this, but I would be and perhaps some others that have posted here as well.

An instructor yelling at me for making a mistake tells me a couple of things. 1. I screwed up 2. He/She cares about what their doing and cares about my safety and training.

After all, their reputation is on the line if I screw up at depth and my life.

 

[in_cavediver]

My first reaction is "H*ll no, I have enough to worry about in this strange new enviroment"

My second reaction is then "well should they teach drivers ed by randomly blowing out tires at 70 mph, or teach skydiving by giving you a bum parachute"?

The point is that for the basic OW classes I think it is best to teach you the skills but make you as comfortable and safe as possible. I am sure there are divers with thousands of dives that have never encountered a loss of tank pressure, or a missing mask. Just like police get additional training to deal with possible random driving hazards, I think, if anything, these scenarios should be reserved for an advanced specialty class.

The problem with wanting to push these things into a specialty is this. At some point, a diver of any cert level could very well need this. I have been there and done that have had a few brown moments. (mask and reg both kicked off with no warning, coupled with a roll off on the alternate post). I am very thankful that I had the wherewithall to remain calm and deal with the problem. I doubt highly your average OW diver would. That said, how would you react to having your mask and reg kicked off your face? Wouldn't it be a bit better to introduce some stress drills and emphasis on problem solving into the OW class?

 

[tlawler]

I'm all for a more intensive training program. Too many people are getting certified that lack basic swimming skills and are taught to rely on their BC as a floatation device. When I went through my basic scuba class (open water was a seperate class) we had two people who couldn't finish the distance swim within the alloted 10 minutes and they were out(with refund). Nowadays I don't think anyone is cut because they can't swim well. In my opinion, comfort in a water setting and basic swim skills will get you out of a lot of tight spots in case your fancy equipment fails.