What now?

[Blackwood]

How do GUE and UTD instructors manage to teach diving, since judging by the posts they all walk on water!!!!

Beats the heck out of a surface swim.

 

[TSandM]

Well, I don't know how Rec 2 is taught these days, but my Rec 2 class was much more like my Rec Triox class than like Fundies. We did team dives and were surprised by various failures, including some compounded failures. I guess Fundies used to be more like that, but these days, it's more a skills-based class.

 

[Rainer]

There's no "triox" (i.e. helium) in UTD's Rec 2. There are failures, which does set it apart somewhat from Fundies, but the skill set is basically the same in these two courses, as is the number of training days/dives and student to instructor ratio. Both classes place a large emphasis on team diving and situational awareness (core DIR principles).

Essentials (of Rec) is much more like the GUE Primer, where the focus is on individual skills, not the team. Both are shorter courses (compared to Rec 2 and Fundies) and don't cover nitrox. Neither is pass/fail (unlike Fundies and Rec 2).

There's a reason you see divers taking Essentials and then Fundamentals, but not vice versa.

GUE Primer and UTD Essentials of Rec are both good options if you want an introduction to solid buoyancy, various propulsion techniques, and streamlined gear configuration. They basically cover the same topics as a good cavern course (minus the line laying).

GUE-F and UTD Rec 2 are for those wanting an introduction to DIR (i.e. more than just personal skills).

Well, I don't know how Rec 2 is taught these days, but my Rec 2 class was much more like my Rec Triox class than like Fundies. We did team dives and were surprised by various failures, including some compounded failures. I guess Fundies used to be more like that, but these days, it's more a skills-based class.

 

[Wayne at DiveSeekers]

Well from what I hear GUE is very serious about what their instructors teach and how they teach it, so i'm glad there is a GUE intructor nearby.

Some of you have talked about how PADI, NAUI etc. have tech courses, which is nice and they are trying to fill a market for up and comming divers but I work with PADI all the time and there is just so much an instructor can change if he/she wishes to. I don't like that at all. I think there should be a set curriculum and that's that. I understand that PADI does have a "curriculum" but you all know as well as I do you will learn more if the instructor simply decides to teach you more and if said instructor doesn't want to it doesn't happen. For this reason I can't really take PADI seriously as a tech choice because of the nature of the dives I will be doing and skills I will be learning. This may just be a generalization of the whole company, I don't know, PADI may have very high standards for their tech instructors.

I personally teach the DSAT Course and I have plenty of flexibility. DSAT has set skills that I have to put a diver though (some agencies leave that to the discretion of the Instructor, which sometime does not lead to repetition, which leads to not "Mastering" the skill) but in the end it is up to me(the Instructor) on how to create the flow of the dive (running wreck reels, SMB deployment, etc...) and to challenge the student. There is a key word in the training materials "Surprises". This actually allows me to also get more out of my student. My students have actually enjoyed the fact that they can see the "Core" skills that have to be executed on every dive before they do it. Of course, they always know that there will be more than just that!! Once again, all the agency is there for is to give you an "umbrella" to teach under, it's up to your Instructor to create the diver!! I prep my students for the local environment and with that there are a lot of things to add and we even do that on a Recreational level as well.


Once again, I truly believe that it comes down to the Instructor, NOT the Agency! I always give more than what the course asks for!!

Proof is in the pudding, just this past weekend I was watching a TDI Trimix course being taught with not only students doing drills while touching and kneeling on platforms but so was the instructor. At that level, valve drills, bottle drills, etc... should be solid and done neutrally buoyant and in trim and the instructor should demo that "Control" as well. Not to toot my own horn, but my entry level tec students have better skills then this. I require my tec students to be neutral for all skills and they have a 3ft (1 1/2ft either way) window (as for Control) to do them in. Should I now say that TDI has a bad program? NO. It's the instructor for demoing poor skills and allowing the students have poor skills and letting them move on.

 

[Blackwood]

It's the instructor for demoing poor skills and allowing the students have poor skills and letting them move on.

Be that as it may, it ought to be specifically precluded by course standards.

 

[Wayne at DiveSeekers]

Be that as it may, it ought to be specifically precluded by course standards.

I hear what you are saying, but it's sad to say, but even if it is written in standards, we all know what goes on out in the field. I see violation of standards all the time. Thus, what I always say, it comes down to the instructor.

 

[CZAR]

I totally agree if you have a great instructor your going to learn more and have more fun doing it and at the end of the course you'll walk out of there knowing you can do your skills. Unfortunately it works the other way as well.

When I dive I dive under the philosophy that nearly any problem underwater can be handled underwater so shooting up to the surface has never really been an option for me. I also dive every dive with the mindset that a cool head aids in problem solving and situational awareness. If I was not 100% positive that my skills weren't "up to par" I wouldn't even think of moving on. That being said I also realize my limitations and i'm not about to exceed those limitations without further training.

 

[ERP]

I'd certainly recommend GUE Fundamentals or the UTD equivalent, I think the reason a lot of divers seem to have an epiphany when they take these courses, is it's the first time they actually see a really good diver and they get an unbiased comparison with themselves on video tape.

Personally I enjoyed Fundamentals and learned a lot, but it wasn't an eiphany for me, the course I really felt was a huge learning experience was rec triox class (which I failed). It was the first time someone had gone out of there way to task load me and my buddy at the time.

Having said that despite what's been said in this thread GUE and I'm sure UTD classes vary by instructor aswell.

 

[RJP]

I personally teach the DSAT Course and I have plenty of flexibility. DSAT has set skills that I have to put a diver though (some agencies leave that to the discretion of the Instructor, which sometime does not lead to repetition, which leads to not "Mastering" the skill) but in the end it is up to me(the Instructor) on how to create the flow of the dive (running wreck reels, SMB deployment, etc...) and to challenge the student. There is a key word in the training materials "Surprises". This actually allows me to also get more out of my student. My students have actually enjoyed the fact that they can see the "Core" skills that have to be executed on every dive before they do it. Of course, they always know that there will be more than just that!! Once again, all the agency is there for is to give you an "umbrella" to teach under, it's up to your Instructor to create the diver!! I prep my students for the local environment and with that there are a lot of things to add and we even do that on a Recreational level as well.


Once again, I truly believe that it comes down to the Instructor, NOT the Agency! I always give more than what the course asks for!!

As one of Wayne's students I can vouch for the fact that you will get much more out of a course with Wayne (or anyone at The Scuba Connection) than merely what the standards require.

And that includes surprises!

Wayne is famous for "picking your pockets" on dives, especially if you leave some piece of gear not clipped off just right. You can imagine my glee when I came up behind him on one dive and spied a reel clipped off on his butt d-ring... just asking to be stolen. Of course my glee quickly dissipated when I got close enough to realize that the reel he had clipped off on his butt had the initials RJP on the handle... and I had an "empty" double-ender on my hip d-ring.

:shocked2:

 

[Hammerhead]

but poke a stick at someone else's sacred cow, and the high horse comes out.

That is one beautifully mangled metaphor.

I'm curious, is that the same high horse that bolted when you left the barn door open after spilling your milk under the bridge? Or is it the dark horse in that we're not allowed to look in the mouth whilst avoiding receiving gifts from Greeks?