What to do when an instructor is out of line?

[Hotpuppy]

According to PADI standards, you're not supposed to be ON dives deeper than 60 feet unless you neglected to include a Deep certification in your profile. Probably not wise to agree to guide a dive you're not qualified to make in low viz conditions at a site you're uncomfortable... live and learn.

We were working on Deep. My understanding is that Advanced Open Water qualifies you to 100 feet and Deep qualifies you to 130. Realistically, 75 feet with crap viz in the dark feels deeper than it is.

I think as far as guiding the dive with the instructor present it's really a chicken or the egg question.

Does taking the course and mastering the material qualify you? or does going on 4 deep dives qualify you? In my opinion practical application with qualified supervision is an excellent method to improve skills.

Stating an objective and allowing the student divers to plan and execute the dive *WITH* the instructor present for planning, correcting plan deficiencies, and along for the dive makes more sense than saying " Okay kids, follow me to the lake bottom" and not looking back.

 

[OldNSalty]

Without hearing both sides I will not say who the F%$&ing idiot is but it sounds like you did the right thing. Even if you were totally wrong, the instructor still shouldn't have responded in the way he did IMO.

 

[RU4SKUBA]

You're right, AOW qualified you to dive 100 feet, my apologies for suggesting otherwise. I guess I was just trying to find the lesson in it for you, the part you could control, but do seriously empathize with your plight and applaud your patience.

Taking any type of responsibility for a persons life is a huge undertaking, and to do so under the conditions you describe --with your current level of training-- was perhaps unrealistic, and that's the lesson IMO.

 

[redacted]

I suspect you are right on PADI, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. I guarantee that the instructor will weave a "bad guy" story because he already fed that to the CD.

Facts typically win out over lies and I've got witnesses, employee-witnesses (dive shop employee was present), and a dive computer dive profile that supports what I said happened.

It is in the interest of all parties on the instruction side of this incident to handle this as discretely and quietly as possible with the least damage. That is, if they can get away with sweeping this under the rug with a probable counseling of the instructor involved (unless the shop is looking to get rid of him) they will.

YOU can help them do this or YOU can insure they don't get away with this. Your call. I suggest you start by informing the shop of this thread so they can jump in if they have anything worthwhile to contribute.

It is just a matter of time before the shop and instructor are revealed by some witness.

 

[Crush]

I am sorry to hear of your experience. As others have noted, you reacted correctly to squeeze. Your instructor blew up at you, but the fault was his, not yours. Also, others have noted that you should report this - I agree.

I am not an instructor, but I have dived near several new divers doing OW training. Our local dives are cold with low vis. I have found two different types of schools: one which sends down OW candidates, one or two at a time, with a student to instructor ratio of 1:1; and one which sends three or more students down at a time with one instructor. The former does not end up with separated students. The latter does.

 

[Hotpuppy]

Taking any type of responsibility for a persons life is a huge undertaking, and to do so under the conditions you describe --with your current level of training-- was perhaps unrealistic, and that's the lesson IMO.

Agreed. The instructor did not allow me or the other student to participate in the dive plan. It was "told" to us what we would dive and that was that. Not how I would plan or execute a dive if diving with a buddy.

My point was that if you are really going to be certified to dive deep with another deep certified diver.... shouldn't you be capable of planning and executive a dive? There won't be an instructor or DM there all the time. So it's not out of the question to expect as a student that I should be able to plan a dive. Personally, I want the exercise. I want the experience of the instructor to say hey, think about this, or don't forget that.

I don't want to get distracted on this post with sharpshooting the dive plan. I'll just say that when I reviewed the dive I realized that I didn't like the plan that was laid out or the dive that followed. It didn't have room to accomodate my needs or the other students needs, it didn't have stages, and it isn't the kind of diving I want to do.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Good question. We typically dive in Houston at 288 Lake and Blue Lagoon. Both have excellent viz by comparison.

I would have no issues at Travis on the 30 and 40 foot platforms. I don't like dark, low-viz, cold environments.

I'm taking DM primarily to bring my dive skills to a higher level. I enjoy diving and I like helping others. I don't know right now if I want to aspire to be an instructor. I sure as hell don't want to be the kind of instructor who rushes students, cusses at them, and loses it.

I had an "am I ready" conversation with the Course Director, and Shop owner (who is a MSDT with more than 10 years of experience). I feel like I'm there.

I also think that Travis is challenging, and squeeze can happen to anyone. Yes, I was equalizing fine, no pseudafed etc, and no reasons not to make the dive.

As to the first highlighted section I would seriously reconsider DM if you have issues with these conditions. A DM should not have any problems in any conditions they are likely to encounter in training dives while assisting.

There are other courses that will bring your skills to a higher level without the emphasis on teaching and selling. GUE Fundies or UTD Essentials, NAUI or SEI Master Diver, Some intro to tech courses. Doing one or some of these will put you ahead of many DM's and some instructors when it comes to helping new divers in say a mentoring role as opposed to actually teaching.

How much are you paying for this DM class? I'd ask them and myself if they had to pay me(meaning you) would they still think you are ready for the role of a DM. Remember they are selling you are buying. Are they going to guarantee a paid role in the operation when you complete the course? Just something to think about.


And you should be able to plan and execute a dive and return from it with no professional right out of OW class. And know when a plan is not right and call the dive regardless of who says it will be ok. Those who do it all the time and say don't worry it will be fine, also kill divers with those plans.

 

[SteveAD]

I'm surprised no one has already commented on this:

We dove to the platform, spent 25 minutes holding the edge of the platform and then after confirming okay began our dive.

You spent 25 min with the OW class depleting your air supply BEFORE proceding to depth?!?

This dive was a fustercluck well before the buddy separation happened.

What happened to the OW students while the instructor went deep with you?

 

[Divedoggie]

We were working on Deep. My understanding is that Advanced Open Water qualifies you to 100 feet and Deep qualifies you to 130. Realistically, 75 feet with crap viz in the dark feels deeper than it is.

I think as far as guiding the dive with the instructor present it's really a chicken or the egg question.

Does taking the course and mastering the material qualify you? or does going on 4 deep dives qualify you? In my opinion practical application with qualified supervision is an excellent method to improve skills.

Stating an objective and allowing the student divers to plan and execute the dive *WITH* the instructor present for planning, correcting plan deficiencies, and along for the dive makes more sense than saying " Okay kids, follow me to the lake bottom" and not looking back.

The instructor has a higher degree of responsibility when conducting deep dives, but I generally agree with your above statement. I tend to let my experienced students plan and take responsibility for our con-ed dives with coaching.
If the instructor happened to plan the the dive though, then that was the plan you should stick to barring a problem.
The reaction that the instructor had apon contact with you at the surface was unacceptable and immature. A calm discussion could have made it a good learning situation for all involved. I'm sure the instructor was really scared that he had lost you... His reaction was the release of all the worries he was having underwater whilst looking for you.

Ultimately you are a certified diver and reponsible for yourself.
You tried to signal that you had a problem and the other members of the team did not respond.
You took care of yourself and your problem (equalization) in a calm and collected manner. At the end of the day, everyone was safe and you didn't injure your ears.
Hind site is 20/20 so,
As you know, the rule of thumb when separated is to look for buddy for one minute before ascending. Perhaps if you ascended a couple of feet until ears felt better and waited for a minute or so, the instructor would have come back up, made contact and then either conducted the rest of the dive from that depth, or at least been aware of your ascent to the surface.
In the end, you should report the incident to PADI and the diveshop owner as well. Calling a client a ****ing idiot at my shop would be the last thing an instructor would do as an employee of my shop!

Brush yourself off, have fun, and keep diving! The situation you had with that instructor is definitely the exception, not the rule!

 

[Hotpuppy]

Brush yourself off, have fun, and keep diving! The situation you had with that instructor is definitely the exception, not the rule!

Thank you for the response and clarification. The many supportive responses have helped me see that yes, this is the exception. For a moment I had my doubts because the instructor did try to CYA with the Course Director and the Course Director seemed to be more intent on making me believe that I had made a major f--up, had bad judgement, etc.

I have reported this to PADI as well as the shop owner. When the shop owner and I have a rational and calm discussion I will let him know that I posted this to ScubaBoard. I will also let him know I have taken care not to trash him by name in public. I will also let him know that I felt this serious enough to report it to PADI For QA. It's his option to respond.

I realize people would love to know the who. That's not fair to the other people who are professional and good instructors at the shop. Right now, I have no reason to doubt that PADI will take this seriously. PADI goes to great lenghts in the Instructor Manual (Code of Practice, Instructor Manual Pg 136, 137, Section 8) and many other places to emphasize customer service, making diving fun, treating individuals with respect, and having a positive learning experience.

I'm going to let the process run it's course. I've done the responsible thing to do by removing myself from a dangerous situation, defending my rights when assaulted, and ensuring that the right people know. This forum has helped me confirm that my expectations and reactions were correct.