What to do when an instructor is out of line?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I completely agree. That's why I'm rather baffled at all the people raging over the fact that we had the discussion at all. :idk:

Nobody is raging over the fact there has been a conversation at all. In fact the vast majority of the raging has come from people who bought the OP hook line and sinker, with zero evidence to back it up. I am more or less amused at how strongly people react to something posted on the internet, with no concept of the reality of the situation.
Again, agree. Which is also why I'm baffled at some of the attacks on the OP that have taken place in here.

Maybe I missed some posts along the way, but I only saw one that would qualify as an attack on the OP, and that was long after the conversation was over, before it was dredged up again. All the vitriol was aimed at the shop, and the instructor.
I don't know the OP, and I'm not here to defend him, although it might seem like that. I just get tired of watching people get eviscerated in here anytime they post anything about a dive that went wrong.

And I get tired of watching people leap to conclusions.


It's those types of responses that cause people to NOT post their stories - to our detriment, because then we don't hear about the stuff that happens, and we don't get a chance to talk about it and LEARN from the situations that other divers encounter. I can't tell you the number of divers I've talked to who have either quit posting to SB entirely, or who tell me they would NEVER in a million years post their own stories, because they don't want to open themselves up to being attacked, insulted, accused of lying, and all the other ugly stuff that happens in here. It's happend to me too - I posted my own story once, and I got roughed up pretty bad. It definitely gives someone pause for thought before they'll consider posting anything that might have happened to them. It's not a pleasant thing to experience, and I don't blame the OP for not coming back to this thread (in case anyone hasn't noticed that).

Why? This place can be 100% anonymous if you want it to be. There is no need to be afraid or take offense to anything here, it can't hurt you unless you allow it to.
 
maybe it was just a one sided story, but all the responses are geared toward ... what could have caused that? ... is it alright to do that? ... what would you do? ... what should be done by the LDS?
So even in a made up scenario, the responses are the same for the most part and people got to hash out what they believe is proper, or not proper, actions of instructors to students, LDS's to students, and to their instructors
 
I know there are always 2 sides and then the truth, but the behaviour of the instructor from what you are saying is completely inappropriate and I hope that your trust of instructors can be renewed. definately write to QA as you are an official witness and it is hard to take anything into account second-hand.
Hope you have much better diving experiences in the future : )
 
Oh dear lord. I've read this whole thread, and there's been some drama-whoring, prompting me to post.



A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

name removed at OP's request


With about 30 pages of professed butt-hurt and a good deal of grand-standing over having an f-bomb dropped after a dive, might as well name its name.

Personally, I'm not their biggest fan, which stems from the fact that I paid a "drive out" cost of about $1200.00 to get my husband and myself certified as OW. I got stuck with a $150.00 FedEx bill on some gear for the OW cert. When I came back for AOW cert for myself, I was then handed a list of about $1200.00 of stuff that I "had" to buy as a requirement for the AOW class, and when handed the list, the fool behind the counter, literally, walked out of the shop without explanation. Yea...that was weird. Supposedly, he's just an anomolous weird dude. But it was enough for me to buy my gear elsewhere, complete the AOW cert I'd paid for, and find another shop.

I'm high maintenance like that. :wink:

Anyway, with that said, sounds like he actually did hotpuppy right: they inquired of the situation, gave him a refund. They didn't hang the instructor in effigy, but I doubt that was called for. In this regard:

The instructor at issue was my OW instructor and my AOW instructor. He's awesome. Period. He's incredibly qualified, knowledgable, and patient, and he ALWAYS puts safety first. Conservatively so.

While it is possible that Instructor somehow lost his mind and went off like a hair-trigger a$$hole at hotpuppy, or was just out of line, I call BS.

For one thing, Hotpuppy's been too blatantly calling for his head, shopping for sympathy on this thread, and hiding some prima donna drama llama-ing behind a "noble high road." For another, I do know Instructor and have made a decent number of dives with him as an Instructor.

My own AOW cert was one of those experiences in Lake Travis that ended up so bad, it was actually comedy gold:

Instructor and I did the AOW cert early last fall in preparation for going to dive the TX Clipper together. The lake was down about 40' and the weekend of our cert, it rained like the great Biblical Flood, turning Windy Point into a mud-filled, mucked up vat of no-vis goodness.

Instructor had 2 students: me, brand newbie, back from Hawaii, with like 15 dives or so, and a dude who had like 200 dives since he was an adrenaline junkie who had been diving using his brother's C-card to dive since he was 15. Dude was heading off that week, with his brother, to go great white shark diving in Australia and needed his own AOW card finally.

For an instructor, that's probably not the ideal match up of students. And to add to the mix, I'm also a Type I, insulin dependent, juvenile diabetic and have been for 25 years - since I was 9 years old. Climbing up and down the rocky cliffs of Lake Travis (and they were rocky with the lake being so far down) didn't exactly add to the peace and enjoyment of the experience and stuff like that does pose a risk for those of us having to worry about keeping our sugar levels up enough. I'm also a "type A" personality and don't like to go in the water with a$$clowns and don't have much reserve in saying so :wink:

So, we were under pressure to "get the cert done" and also dealing with some pretty stressful conditions.

Instructor isn't the type to put divers in the water without a decent plan. Nor is he the type to deconstruct in a SNAFU. In this case, for example, I got stuck on the deep dive in one of those idiotic pecan grove trees in Lake Travis. I think we were at like 55 feet when it happened. The lake was so far down, that the bottom was maybe 80 feet. I lost a fin when that tree viciously assaulted me blind. Good times.

Instructor, however, was diligently watching both of us- despite the no-vis, and signalled me if I wanted to thumb the dive. But with the miserable conditions... no, I wasn't repeating it, we were getting this bitch done. So, we went slowly down to 75 feet, on the line, did the combo lock skill, and came back up. He went down ahead of us, but he was a good and competent Instructor.

During another dive, the night dive, adrenaline dude somehow lost his mask, cleaning it, right before we went down. The "wreck dive" was probably the best, trying to do that in the dark, with adrenaline dude's size 15 fins on me, but we were only at about 12 feet, so... hey :wink:

I've rambled on, but the point is this: I have made about 20 dives with Instructor and he's qualified, competent, incredibly attune to his students and safety. He isn't prone to lose his cool or mercilessly descend upon someone with a torrent of four-letter words.

If angry words ensued after a dive and someone even dropped an f-bomb, get over it. Get a refund. But going to PADI on this or desiring some apology written in blood or sympathy from Scubaboard sounds like hotpuppy is being a bit of a prima donna drama llama.

Glad you had a good experience with him. I didn't, I thought it was out of line, and many others thought it was out of line. I did not imagine it and unless you were actually there I think you should think twice about calling BS.
 
I was going to mention making noise as well, but banging your tank with your dive knife is folly, you're doing it behind your back where you can't see, and could very well end up poking a hole in your BCD/wing.

My number one tip for making noise underwater, if you don't have a mechanical way to do so(inflator hose whistle, tank banger, rattle, etc) is going beatbox. Just make drum sounds in your throat, works like a sharm. I learned this one from my videography instructor.

As for his readiness for DM course... I think he is. Mind you I could be wrong, I've never met him. Just make sure to dive a lot, whenever you don't have coursework, go diving. Personally I started mine on 21 dives and ended it on 93.

Making noise is a *really* good idea, and it is something that I should have done. Admittedly this isn't something that has worked well for me in the past which is probably why it didn't come up in my solution list.

As for using my knife.... not so much. It just adds one more potential problem to the risk pool. Frankly, resolving the ear squeeze safely was my number one concern. I flashed my light and was trying to clear with the other hand... so short of dropping my light there isn't much that can be done...

Anyhow, making noise tops the list of things I would try next time. I just don't see how noise is going to make a difference if you don't see someone wildly flashing a light on you (presumably in front of you) in a dark environment.
 
I've read just the first and last pages of this thread. I was working as a DMT on a dive in similar conditions in Portland Harbour on the south coast of England. Instructor, six OW students and me. No qualified DM or other staff. Dreadful viz - no matter where I put myself I couldn't see all six students, so I resorted to swimming up and down the line behind them. After doing some skills on a shallow wreck, the instructor led off for a "swim for pleasure", telling the students to follow in buddy pairs and for me to take up the rear. The instructor swam fairly quickly, and although I couldn't see him the lead students later said that he never once stopped or looked back. After a while the student pair I was following (I couldn't see the pair in front of them) stopped because they had lost sight of the crocodile. The three of us had no option but to make a controlled ascent, surfacing some way from our moored RIB. The other divers weren't on the surface yet, so we swam slowly on our backs to the RIB. When the instructor surfaced he cussed me loudly in front of all the students for losing control of the dive and endangering his students.

There are some very bad instructors around.
 
They are NOT supposed to be combining classes. That is just stupid. Forcing AOW or Deep students to wait around while at the same time working with an OW class is reckless. While they are "monitoring" they are using up gas that might be needed in an emergency.That an instructor would do this sets a very bad example as well as perhaps risking a serious incident. Reporting that kind of behavior is not only wise but as a DM candidate mandatory. And as for the short cut with the deep dive ( and that is what it was, standards may say 70 or even 80 ft is good enough but it does not give a good idea of what happens when the crap hits the fan at 100. And out of curiosity what SAC rate did you use to calculate your gas requirements? What was your rock bottom pressure requirement for that depth and the tank you were using? With a good instructor this should have been part of your gas plan.

SAC rate? lol... we didn't even discuss gas consumption.... now, I happen to have an air integrated computer so I watch my RBT, but that is no substitute for gas consumption planning.... my fault.... as already noted I will take greater responsibility for planning dives including training dives.

As for the DM Trainee... I hardly think one classroom session qualifies me to be a DM Candidate on a dive. Enrolled in the class? yes..... qualified to work with students in the water.... HELL NO.
 
Given that you needed the card for an upcoming trip to the Clipper and the other student needed the card for a trip later that week to Australia, it certainly appears that your backs were against the wall in terms of scheduling. If the dives had been scrubbed, when exactly was the other guy going to make it up? Now it may be true that this scheduling played no part in the mind of the instructor but it is possible.

As for hazardous versus pretty, you were the one who said you got stuck and lost a fin. That sounds pretty hazardous to me. Many divers consider those pecans to be an overhead environment since you often cannot ascend directly to the surface. They pose a serious entanglement hazard even in good viz.

Well put.... as expected. :) I personally have no intention of blundering into an overhead environment much less the pecan forest at the bottom of Lake Travis. I'm not qualified to dive overhead and have no desire to do so. To those that choose to do so, may God speed your safe return.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom