What would you do with a J-valve?

You're given a tank with a J-valve. What do you do before the dive?

  • Leave it up (off). That's how they work.

    Votes: 30 22.7%
  • Turn it down (on). Of course.

    Votes: 69 52.3%
  • It doesn't matter. I have a pressure gauge.

    Votes: 14 10.6%
  • Ask the DM: "What the heck is THAT!?"

    Votes: 10 7.6%
  • "Uh... I think I'll just go snorkeling today."

    Votes: 10 7.6%

  • Total voters
    132

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Pesky,

The Snark III works pretty well with either of these hose systems. It is the equivalent of the USD two hose systems with my internal modification and either the USD hoses or the Hope-Page mouthpiece. The Snark III has such a large exhaust valve in the case (mushroom valve) that it will "leak" air because of the pressure differential between the outer edge of the mushroom valve and the center of the lever point for the diaphram. But it does not leak air due to the venturi effect (I have two others that do a bit, the Trieste II and the Sportsways Hydro-Twin, both of which are equipped with LP and HP outlets).

By the way, I saw on Discovery Channel that the US Navy is now using Snark III regulators exclusively for their initial SEAL training, as there are now no other double hose regulators on the market. They don't use SPG's either in the initial training, at least.

The nice thing about the Hope-Page is that it can be used with currently available Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA, not SCUBA) used by fire departments and many, many other organizations when entering a space with an IDLH atmosphere (Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health).

I have an original Aqualung DX regulator that I've rebuilt, with the venturi hose within the right hose and a metal mouthpiece that directs venturi air down the diver's throat (like today's single-hose regs). It was the one of the best breathing two-hose regulators made, but the original hoses were too short, and some said the "tasted bad" too. I've equipped this regulator with the SCBA hoses from a safety supply house. With 6 moving parts, which never need replacement, and an old-style flutter exhalation valve, it will be going for many more years.

Getting back to the "J" valve discussion, my twin 42's are set up with a twin "J" manifold (reversed, as mentioned above). This unit has the Sherwood SVB 4000 JD with Reserve duel outlet manifold, with two separate regulator mountings. Because I've reversed the valve configuration, I can wear a double hose regulator and a single hose regulator. In this way, I can still use the older double hose regulators and have a complete octopus, LP hose for my BC, etc.

The reason that these tanks had a pull rod was the positioning of the scuba in the harness system. To use a double hose regulator effectively, the regulator should be between the shoulder blades. Wearing it higher increases the breathing resistence by raising the regulator higher in the water column in relation to the center of the diver's lungs. All my harnesses are set up this way, whether or not I'm using a double hose regulator, for one other reason--it's much easier to swim on the surface with the tank low on the diver's back. The higher the tank, the more it will push the diver down when on the surface.

I mention this because, in one of the posts above, I heard that divers are now being taught to wear their rigs high enough to reach over your shoulder to be able to access both the regulator and the tank valve. That post said that this is the reason pull rods are no longer being used.

I take exception to this position. The tank's harness should be worn, in my opinion, with enough strap length to allow a diver to comfortably snorkel in a near-horizontal position (say 30 degrees from horizontal) on the surface. I've heard that there have been diving fatalities on the surface from divers who cannot snorkel in a chop and swim to shore a few hundred yards. With today's snorkels, that situation can only happen when the become exhausted from surface swimming. Wearing the tanks too high will contribute mightily to that situation. If the valve is between the shoulder blades, the tank will be low enough on the diver's back so as to allow good surface (snorkeling) position while in scuba. Try it in a pool, if you are not convinced. Also, at the end of the dive, many aluminum tanks are actually a bit bouyant empty. Worn lower, the buoyant bottom end will help the diver attain that near-horizontal position so desirable for surface swimming.

SeaRat
 
I agree with your comments and analysis. In particular, most 'double hosers' (vintage divers), came to the conclusion that the double tanks setup provided for lower positioning of the reg which was beneficial. Applying this principle to the newer equipment is controversial but I support your contentions. Some folks don't want to hear about the deaths related to traditional causes, like drowning; that in spite of trick hoses and bungee cords, but awkward balance and no snorkel. This is partly the reason for the popularity of extremely long tanks, to transfer weight aft, IMO. Change one thing and, inevitably, one must change three other things.

X,Y positioning of the double hose is crucial to performance but then too is the 'Z' positioning, eg, distance to the center of chest. Cousteau's use of relatively thin tanks allowed the regulator to be positioned flat on the back minimizing this distance. Since the tanks were smaller overall, he needed three. Also, it looks cool. :)

Pesky
 
Maybe it was mentioned somwhere else, and I didn't see it. I was taught Up, like they were made for. What about the situation where you are diving in visibility conditions so low you can't read your SPG. I had just such an occasion last fall (albeit in only 15 ft of water). I thought it would have been nice to have had one had.
 
NOW for this one. I got an old set of 72s doubled up with a "brand X manifold, made in USA" that has a j-valve on the right post. If (and I never plan on doing so) I left it up and sucked them dry, then dropped the lever, how quick do you suppose the 500+/- psi would take to equalize into both tanks? scary thought.

tony
 
J valves are still acceptable, but I would not use one now days because it can be easy to accidently have the reserve valve in the wrong possition before diving. You may be depending on the reserve to tell you when you are low on air, but what if you had the valve open and breathed most of reserve before realizing you were low? (A major problem in the old days) The best way is to use a K-Valve and constantly check your SPG.
 
Wonder whatever happened to my tanks with the J and K valves. They saw a lot of use in the 60's and 70's. I answered the poll assuming I was diving with one under the same conditions as I would have back then. The valve is up until breathing gets harder, then pulled down. If diving with a pressure gauge like today, keep it down.

Remember my first dive off Catalina after certification. I was taking one of my high school students down to 90 ft to photograph a worm he had seen there previously. We grabbed two tanks with J-valves off the filled rack, and dropped down to 90 ft.

When we got there Gary looked concerned and gave me the out of air hand signal so we started buddy breathing off mine (of course no octopus back then). With the two of us on the same tank, the breathing became difficult so I reached back to pull the J valve. It was already down.

Fortunately we made it back to the surface, and suffered no ill effects. I did ball out the guy who maintained our compressor and filled the tanks.

That would never happen today. Definitely nice having today's better gear including SPG's, octopus, pony bottle and BCD (dove with backpacks only back then). Much safer.

Dr. Bill
 
Okay, the J valve discussion is cool, but did y'all see what else was being offered in that catalog?

An underwater bicycle? ("Three times faster with five times less effort!")

A full face mask with twin snorkels built in?

A pair of inflatable boobs, ready to be popped into action from the "cigarette pack sized case?"

Did y'all see the mask-built-into-the-hood thingie? 'Guess that thing wasn't going to get kicked off, hunh?

...And whatever happened to the theory that the first stage should be at lung level? Does that not apply today? Is the theory simply wrong - that it should be in your mouth?

Must have been weird with the bubbles coming from the valve instead of from the diver's mouth...

I think it would be a lot of fun to try some of this stuff out... Especially the Mono Sub...
 
I'm training for a climb so I filled an old steel 72 with water and capped it with a J valve. Put the tank in my backpack with some weight bags and off I go. Without the J valve I could never succeed in my climb. Hail the great J valve!

Dave
 

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