Whats happening to diving certification? Where have the standards gone?

[scuba=dude]

I'll try and not make a book out of this post......

I got my c-card from the YMCA in 75.......I can tell you that Nothing is as it was then. The time I spend in boot camp to get into the navy was about the same. I had a 20year laps in my scuba diving and was unable to get a replacement card from YMCA (another life time deal that didn't last that long) so I went to a dive shop to get a new card. PADI, after 20 years of not useing my dive skills I was shure that I was doing the right thing. Wrong.....I knew more about diving then the the OW book I was useing, when I asked about Buddy breathing I was told in a rude way that Buddy breathing was out-dated!!! I was told that all divers have an OCTO (most divers I see with them are draging them in the sand) and you would use that. We did no rescue lifts,tows,or fist-aid of any kind.
I think that all of the c-card sellers are brakeing up the training to get more money rather then just teach you how to dive in a maner that is safe for the diver let alone his buddy. Back in the day we where schooled in self recue and life saving now it would seem that they'll give a card to anyone (for $300) then put them in the hands of the diving comuitiy to lean too dive, this more then any one thing this has made alot of skilled divers go solo as not to put themselfs in danger of being killed by a freaked out diver that just ran out of air.
I,m lucky to have met a guy that wished to lean scuba diving, he got all of his gear, Did the e-learning and I worked with him in my pool......send him to get his card at the same place I got my last one a few years ago......one 6hour day and 4 open water dives......Big deal, now I have to drive it home to him that he is NOT a diver yet, just a trainie and that we will make him one soon enough.
As far as the computer over the dive planer, if you trust a computer over your dive planer,good for you I hope it all works out for you in the end. Bottom line here is "Make a dive plan and then dive your plan" " A good diver is always leaning" As far as I care, anything that has a battery in it, is one day going to stop working. But you dive planer has no batterys.
Dale

 

[BDSC]

In addition, I see another problem. You end up having to teach the tables when they take the NITROX class.

Not anymore.

 

[pedo]

That, to me, seemed like a very good way to handle it. "We're going to teach you tables, because that's the harder way of doing it. If you want to use a computer, we'll show you how AFTER you've mastered the tables."

Because it's harder? I have no problem using tables but that sounds just silly to me.

 

[boulderjohn]

so why not just pick up an old Bottom Timer instead of a watch? They are built like tanks. I mean the old analog Princeton Tectonics model, btw. . .

Whatever works for you. I was just pointing out that there is no necessity to a table/watch/depth gauge backup when it is just as cheap to have a computer backup. I myself usually dive without a computer, depending upon my situation. As I also said, many times a multi-level first dive makes a table-based second dive impossible. For example, I once did a dive to 100 feet for 80 minutes because I did most of it at a much shallower depth. If I had lost my computer after that dive, I could not possibly base a second dive on tables. (The NDL for 100 feet on the RDP is 20 minutes.) If you are planning to do multi-level dives with a computer as your primary device, it makes sense to have the same thing as your back up.

 

[ccx2]

Good Thread. If diving with a computer and it quits ,shouldn't the diver ascend at that point if possible at a normal ascent rate?
End the dive.

 

[redacted]

Good Thread. If diving with a computer and it quits ,shouldn't the diver ascend at that point if possible at a normal ascent rate?
End the dive.

That is the recommended option but there are other options that can be perfectly safe. I have no problem diving without a computer at sites I am familiar with and know that my dive is gas limited and well off of any NDL. While I have not done so yet, I'm sure there are circumstances where I would be quite happy to finish a dive on my buddy's data.

 

[Thalassamania]

Whatever works for you. I was just pointing out that there is no necessity to a table/watch/depth gauge backup when it is just as cheap to have a computer backup. I myself usually dive without a computer, depending upon my situation. As I also said, many times a multi-level first dive makes a table-based second dive impossible. For example, I once did a dive to 100 feet for 80 minutes because I did most of it at a much shallower depth. If I had lost my computer after that dive, I could not possibly base a second dive on tables. (The NDL for 100 feet on the RDP is 20 minutes.) If you are planning to do multi-level dives with a computer as your primary device, it makes sense to have the same thing as your back up.

Actually, if you know the base model of the computer and you take the time to write down the displayed depth/no-D times during your SIT it is rather easy and straightforward to get back onto a set of tables. The technique is discussed in the AAUS Diving Computer Workshop (check Rubicon) by both Emmerman and Sharkey.

 

[Hoomi]

Good Thread. If diving with a computer and it quits ,shouldn't the diver ascend at that point if possible at a normal ascent rate?
End the dive.

When my computer malfunctioned on the first dive of the weekend, we had just started a shore dive in a bay with a maximum depth of 35'/10m. As much as I would love to already be such an air sipper that I should worry about reaching the NDL at 35', I haven't reached that condition yet. According to the PADI tables, at 35', we don't even reach the "safety stop required" level until we go over 139 minutes bottom time, and the NDL is rated at 205 minutes.

I'd be ecstatic to get 2 hours out of an 80cf tank. I'm happy on the typical dive to hit an hour. I have a pretty decent lung capacity, and it sometimes takes a conscious effort to curtail how much of that capacity I use while diving. It's great for long phrases on the flute, but doesn't seem to be so great while diving. Almost three and a half hours, though? I might be almost as likely to just grow gills and not need the tank and reg at all.

OTOH, had the computer failed on a boat dive to 70 or 80 feet, I would likely have thumbed the dive the moment I noticed (which wouldn't have taken long, since I tend to check it regularly). Particularly with the type of failure I experienced, and if there were deeper depths I might have gone to, I wouldn't have risked the dive. When the computer failed, it began counting up the depth without regard to actual conditions. By the time we finished that first dive, my computer showed that I had gone to some 300' deep (pretty good trick in a 35' deep bay), and had been down for over 100 minutes.

Now, I'd REALLY love to have the kind of air management that I could make an 80cf tank last for over 100 minutes at 300' deep.

(Yeah, yeah - I know. Those depths require different air mixtures and a lot of tech diving stuff that I haven't even dreamed of the kind of training and experience to consider...)

 

[boulderjohn]

Actually, if you know the base model of the computer and you take the time to write down the displayed depth/no-D times during your SIT it is rather easy and straightforward to get back onto a set of tables. The technique is discussed in the AAUS Diving Computer Workshop (check Rubicon) by both Emmerman and Sharkey.

I'm sure that's true, but if you could read all of that stuff from your computer during your SI, then the odds are you wouldn't need to make the switch.

If your computer goes bad during your first dive and you abort it accordingly, you won't have this option.

 

[Thalassamania]

If it's the first dive and you abort it accordingly, then you take your max depth and dive time and use the tables normally.

I am not arguing against computers, I like them. I am not arguing against a backup computer, that's a fine approach, I am just suggesting that with a good knowledge of decompression theory and some background in both table and computer use, the ways there are to skin the cat increase.