When a Student doesn't get it?

[Diving Dubai]

Mixed feelings from today.

I had a student for reactivate. She was my first since completing DM. The plan was to go through the reactivate, then after a break get back in the pool where I would refine her buoyancy and trim, before she started her PPB.

The client was a mature student, had 30 dives and AOW but last dived in 2009 in Thailand.

All started well she got 100% with the theory. She was very rusty on her kit assemble (but since we'd do that a couple of times during the day no problem) Air Share took some time, mask remove and replace was pretty good. She was unstable under water, sculling and often landing on her butt - but these were items we'd work through later

All we needed to do was the hover.

I'd already done a proper weight check and got her holding a fin pivot all was good. But the hover. No.

I tried everything I could think of. I re demonstrated teh skill a number of times. adjusted her buoyancy for her, tried to gently hold her to prevent her rising and falling too much so she could get the feel of her breathing. To no avail.

I took her out of the pool changed her tank for a full one (she'd started with a half empty tank which was now down to 60 bar and was getting buoyant) we had a 30 minute break and chatted through the skill and how to breath etc. I really thought she's got it. But no.

We gave it another 30 minutes (in total 3 hrs water time) and I called an end to it, as I could see she was getting frustrated.

The most she managed was a 12 second hover.

Of course I couldn't sign her off, she's coming back on Sunday for another go, and will go with an instructor. Even if she passes she needs a few dives to shake the cobwebs off before starting PPB.

Personally I feel a failure not getting her through this skill.

Obviously when your being taught to teach you have skilled divers. while they will "make" deliberate mistakes to see if you spot or rectify them, they can do the skill. It doesn't teach you how to teach someone who is not getting it.

So my question is what did I do wrong, how do other people deal with this? Should I have passed her to another instructor sooner?

I start IDC in Aug with IE at the end of that month, so happy to take criticism or advice so that I can learn.

 

[Diver0001]

Personally I feel a failure not getting her through this skill.

I've had the feeling from time to time as well. It's part of learning. What happened today will help you in the long run. You often learn more from what doesn't work than what does.

So my question is what did I do wrong, how do other people deal with this? Should I have passed her to another instructor sooner?

Without seeing her in the water it's hard to know for 100% sure what I would have done but judging from your story I would think on your side the main "mistake' if you want to call it that, is to keep hammering at it until she got it.

A student who is getting frustrated needs to get unfrustrated before you start to work on the skill again. What I do in the pool is break the entire session up into blocks of 10 minutes. In one block of 10 minutes I do one thing, whenever feasible. In the block right after that, do something else.

So when working on neutral swimming and hovering I would start easy with a student who wasn't sure of him/her self and then slowly raise the bar.

For example, and this is just an example, not a cook-book:

In the first 10 minutes, I would do nothing. Just get underwater and swim around. Let them get used to it again. Give them some positive reinforcements and so forth. In the next 10 minutes I would work on mask. When I was sure that was going ok then whatever time was left of the 10 minute block I would go back to just swimming.

In the 3rd 10 minutes I would go from swimming to swimming slower and slower until we are actually hovering. At this point you'll see if there are trim issues that can be solved with ease. The trick the first time is to not make a big deal about it.

After trying to hover, I would go back to swimming, then into the OOA exercise and then back to swimming, slower and slower until hovering and so forth.

If there are trim issues then one of the quickest ways to get your mind (and the student's mind) around it is to give them a 1kg or 2kg weight block that they can hold in their hand. When they hold it further out then the head will go down. if they hold it further toward the waist then the feet will go down. Give them the weight block and go swimming with them to try getting as level as possible.

.... then slower and slower until you're hovering. This is all good for the reactivate but gives the student a starting point for PPB as well.

At any rate, this is what I do in mod-1 and mod-2 of the OW course and usually by the end of mod-2 they can hover. I don't see any reason why a certified diver with 30 dives wouldn't be able to go through the same process much faster in the context of a reactivate.

R..

 

[sunnyboy]

When you say "hover", can you describe what exactly you were asking her to demonstrate?

 

[cerich]

Mixed feelings from today.

I had a student for reactivate. She was my first since completing DM. The plan was to go through the reactivate, then after a break get back in the pool where I would refine her buoyancy and trim, before she started her PPB.

The client was a mature student, had 30 dives and AOW but last dived in 2009 in Thailand.

All started well she got 100% with the theory. She was very rusty on her kit assemble (but since we'd do that a couple of times during the day no problem) Air Share took some time, mask remove and replace was pretty good. She was unstable under water, sculling and often landing on her butt - but these were items we'd work through later

All we needed to do was the hover.

I'd already done a proper weight check and got her holding a fin pivot all was good. But the hover. No.

I tried everything I could think of. I re demonstrated teh skill a number of times. adjusted her buoyancy for her, tried to gently hold her to prevent her rising and falling too much so she could get the feel of her breathing. To no avail.

I took her out of the pool changed her tank for a full one (she'd started with a half empty tank which was now down to 60 bar and was getting buoyant) we had a 30 minute break and chatted through the skill and how to breath etc. I really thought she's got it. But no.

We gave it another 30 minutes (in total 3 hrs water time) and I called an end to it, as I could see she was getting frustrated.

The most she managed was a 12 second hover.

Of course I couldn't sign her off, she's coming back on Sunday for another go, and will go with an instructor. Even if she passes she needs a few dives to shake the cobwebs off before starting PPB.

Personally I feel a failure not getting her through this skill.

Obviously when your being taught to teach you have skilled divers. while they will "make" deliberate mistakes to see if you spot or rectify them, they can do the skill. It doesn't teach you how to teach someone who is not getting it.

So my question is what did I do wrong, how do other people deal with this? Should I have passed her to another instructor sooner?

I start IDC in Aug with IE at the end of that month, so happy to take criticism or advice so that I can learn.

great students don't make a great instructor. You really don't know if she was ever able to hover, it may be a new skill for her completely, combined with rust, nerves, any variety of stuff, much of what you wouldn't be privy to.

This sounds like good for both of your growth

 

[cerich]

By the way, teach a student a fin pivot as a buoyancy skill and you teach habits that are hard to break and does NOT help in any manner to teach a student what neutral buoyancy should feel or look like. Same as the floating budda hover

 

[Edward3c]

Hi,

You’re learning one of the real lessons of being an instructor. Students that pick skills up first go are no challenge, but when they hit an issue it stretches you as an instructor.

@returner is spot on about not pushing the skill, but change to something else. If you persist the student can get downhearted, by moving onto something else which they can perform you give them some success to look back on.

If its a skill you suspect was poorly taught (do such instructors exist), go back to basics and teach it again from scratch. Sometimes you have to break it down into much smaller stages or come at it from a different direction.

I’m not a PADI instructor, so excuse my ignorance, but what is the standard for a ‘hover’ pass?

Kind regards

Edward

 

[Diving Dubai]

@Diver0001

Thanks for the salient advice. I did give her some swims around the pool, but didn't break it up as much as you would. During the swims we were struggling with buoyancy.

@cerich Good point for your second post, given I'm still studying I'm going by the book and perhaps I should be more focusing on the methods described by Diver0001. But I' be very open to you expanding on this some more

Previously I've mentored other qualified divers on their weighting buoyancy and trim, and never had an issue - so when you do get a student who's struggling its outside my experience level

@Edward3c

Thanks for your advice. the PADI OW standard is 30 seconds not touching the bottom or the surface, not using their hands nor fins. PADI still prescribe the Buddha (as I interpret the standards)

 

[Diver0001]

I’m not a PADI instructor, so excuse my ignorance, but what is the standard for a ‘hover’ pass?

It's actually two skills. In mod-3 the student needs to do a 30 second "hover" which is defined as remaining suspended in the water (not touching the bottom or the surface) in any orientation without sculling with hands or feet and using only breathing to control depth. In mod-3 the student adjusts the BCD with the power inflator.

in mod-4 they do it again. This time for 1 minute and using oral inflation of the BCD.

In the context of a reactivate normally students already have some experience and can hover for extended periods of time. I interpret the standard for reactivate as being a minimum of 30 seconds with the use of a power inflator.

None of the standards dictate how the student is supposed to get into the hover or the body position. This is all left to the instructor. For example, a colleague of mine gets the students into a hover from a fin-pivot and then sits upright. I get the students into a hover during the descent in the deep end by just descending 1/2 way to the bottom and stopping. In my case if they find it easier to sit then I will allow it but during the descent they are encouraged to get in the diving position so I allow the hover in that position too. In both cases (myself and my colleague) the students are asked to cross their hands and their ankles in order to avoid any chance of skulling and/or kicking.

R..

 

[cerich]

It's actually two skills. In mod-3 the student needs to do a 30 second "hover" which is defined as remaining suspended in the water (not touching the bottom or the surface) in any orientation without sculling with hands or feet and using only breathing to control depth. In mod-3 the student adjusts the BCD with the power inflator.

in mod-4 they do it again. This time for 1 minute and using oral inflation of the BCD.

In the context of a reactivate normally students already have some experience and can hover for extended periods of time. I interpret the standard for reactivate as being a minimum of 30 seconds with the use of a power inflator.

None of the standards dictate how the student is supposed to get into the hover or the body position. This is all left to the instructor. For example, a colleague of mine gets the students into a hover from a fin-pivot and then sits upright. I get the students into a hover during the descent in the deep end by just descending 1/2 way to the bottom and stopping. In my case if they find it easier to sit then I will allow it but during the descent they are encouraged to get in the diving position so I allow the hover in that position too. In both cases (myself and my colleague) the students are asked to cross their hands and their ankles in order to avoid any chance of skulling and/or kicking.

R..

exactly, the budda is not required by standards, a hover is. I think a hover in a trimmed diver position is a good hover

 

[Diver0001]

exactly, the budda is not required by standards, a hover is. I think a hover in a trimmed diver position is a good hover

I tend to agree with this. Since standards do not dictate the student's body position there is some wiggle room for the instructor to allow any manner of floating that the student is able to achieve. My personal goal is to get them to the point that when we are swimming slower and slower they can just go from swimming into hovering at any point during the dive and maintain that position.

That said, when it comes to the performance requirements we are allowed to try working at how we want it but PADI would not agree with rejecting a hover if it is not in perfect trim and horizontal.

R..