When a Student doesn't get it?

[Diving Dubai]

I disagree somewhat. I found instructors taught the Buddha pose because of that damnable photo in the manual and on that course slide. It became "the thing to do" in the pool, even for instuctors and DMs.

Last I checked, that damned photo still pops up in places. Too bad it doesn't have the caption "diver assuming an idiot pose in the pool".

Correct.

The photo's and video still appear in the Divemaster E learning. Also it is one of the skills you are taught to demonstrate. Now others have said there are different ways to interpret this skill, which I can agree with after more reading, BUT these are already qualified instructors.

My IE is in August, if this skill is called for me to demonstrate, then I must carry it out in the "classic" manner. It wouldn't bode well for me to tell teh IE staff that their way is wrong, and another way is better and expect a pass?

@boulderjohn and @Diver0001 and other respected instructors maybe, but not an instructor candidate.

However I am watching the discussion with interest. Post certification I may well take a trip to visit @Diver0001 or @The Chairman, sit in on their classes to watch and learn.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Probably a little too much weight on her

For the Weighting? No. She was perhaps 1Kg over but the deep end of the pool is only 8' I was happy to leave her at 1Kg over at the start and then to remove it as we progressed.

Is she breathing normally and in a relaxed way ?, probably not

You're correct here. The lady was struggling with the concept of breath in to go up and breathe out to go down. On top of that I couldn't seem to explain how to slowly inhale and once you see a buoyancy shift start to exhale to arrest the movement. Obviously I did explain in a number of ways, demonstrate too, but she couldn't grasp the concept.

I did try to get her into just the horizontal hover instead too, no success.

Either she hadn't been taught well, or had forgotten everything, perhaps a combination of both. The fact she'd also sign up for a PPB seems to say she knew she had issues with buoyancy. On Sunday she's going through the whole course again with another instructor, and we will see what the outcome here is

 

[Diving Dubai]

OK, needs work.
No.

Too much at play here. Pick apart WHY she can't hover. Fault analysis. Not you, HER. Baby steps.

Wow, just wow. Too much energy and self-flagellation.

Redirect all that to analysis, not to second guessing one's own competence.

Yes, no.

The problem with learning to tech is that you use competent divers as students. Sure they throw in "mistakes" to catch you off guard or to ensure you are observing and correcting, but they can do the skill.

Nothing prepares you for the student who can't do it, and there is (on my part) an element of frustration that I ran out of tools in my box with which to help and assist.

It's my role surely to be able to teach them and get them to overcome their problems? So their failure is my failure?

I've previously mentored quite a few divers who had bad buoyancy and trim, and within a very short space of time had them to a standard where they could swim around a wreck, 1 foot off the sand without making a disturbance or sculling etc. Not being able to teach this "basic skill" obviously but a dent in my confidence as to my competence.

So far there has been some great advice, although as only an Instructor candidate I'm limited to what I can actually use.

I will say that I've seen the standard of OW students my shop turns out, and their horizontal trim and buoyancy was excellent, with the final skills being taught neutral. I only wish I had been taught that way, it took me a while to figure out good buoyancy and to disregard the bad habits that had been given to me on my original course

 

[charlier]

Correct.

The photo's and video still appear in the Divemaster E learning. Also it is one of the skills you are taught to demonstrate. Now others have said there are different ways to interpret this skill, which I can agree with after more reading, BUT these are already qualified instructors.

My IE is in August, if this skill is called for me to demonstrate, then I must carry it out in the "classic" manner. It wouldn't bode well for me to tell teh IE staff that their way is wrong, and another way is better and expect a pass?

Hi DD - I passed my IE without demonstrating the "classic" position. According to my IE examiners, the hover can be demonstrated in any fashion, as long as you do not scull with hands and move your fins. I found that the PADI IE examiners were fair and were not wedded to the past. best, charlie

 

[Edward3c]

My IE is in August, if this skill is called for me to demonstrate, then I must carry it out in the "classic" manner. It wouldn't bode well for me to tell teh IE staff that their way is wrong, and another way is better and expect a pass?

Don’t beat yourself up over this one thing, we all get students that require alternate techniques.

In many ways the actual lesson you get is irrelevant. Concentrate of the objective: to demonstrate you understand the basics of teaching diving skills and you know the pass standards of the agency, you can adequately control the class and keep to time.

 

[boulderjohn]

The lady was struggling with the concept of breath in to go up and breathe out to go down

I have seen this with a number of students. You see them slowly sinking toward the bottom of the pool, and then you see an explosion of air bubbles and they drop to the bottom. With such students, I will get in front of them, pointing toward my mouth when they need to inhale and pointing away when they need to exhale. With some, even though you have briefed it, they take a while to get it.

The concept seems simple enough, and the students are not idiots. For some reason, when participating in a new activity like this, people can make what seems to be truly stupid mistakes. I start the very first session in the shallow end having the students swim on the surface breathing from the regulators. Then I have them dump their air and descend so they can swim under water, adding just enough air to keep off the bottom. I once saw a student, a very bright woman, struggling to descend. I saw that her weight pockets were lying on the pool floor beneath her. Surprised they had come out, I went over, got her attention, and told her the weight pockets had accidently fallen out. By then she was already laughing at herself as she told me it had been no accident--she had dropped the weights intentionally so she could sink.

 

[boulderjohn]

Here is a demonstration I do that might be of use.

The first time we get into the deep end, I have the students watch as I dump air to lie on the bottom, then put a shot of air in the BCD to get close to neutral. I then inhale sharply to get off the bottom. I then point out my breathing by pointing at my mouth or away from my mouth as I slowly ascend until my head breaks the surface. They should see me rise as I inhale and then slow as I exhale. A big exhale at the surface starts my ascent, and I drop in a slow and controlled manner, again showing the breathing. Halfway down I hover, again showing how I breathe. Then I drop back down to the floor of the pool.

I have briefed them ahead of time on what they will see and why they will see it.

 

[lowviz]

...//... Nothing prepares you for the student who can't do it, and there is (on my part) an element of frustration that I ran out of tools in my box with which to help and assist. ...

Always be prepared for the Peter Principle. It rules life in general:

Peter principle - Wikipedia

Many students subconsciously want to see how far they can get by just coasting. No, they aren't REALLY trying. The burden is offloaded onto you. Seriously, how hard is it if one truly applies oneself?

 

[Bubblesong]

Always be prepared for the Peter Principle. It rules life in general:

Peter principle - Wikipedia

Many students subconsciously want to see how far they can get by just coasting. No, they aren't REALLY trying. The burden is offloaded onto you. Seriously, how hard is it if one truly applies oneself?

Alternatively, trying harder to do it the same way that's been failing just mean that person will fail harder.
What if she doesn't realize that there is a slight delay in rising after inhaling due to inertia? So she keeps inhaling, sucking in air, while she's already rising, instead of smooth, easy, non-stop breathing? Perhaps she could experiement with different pacing.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Update:

The Student passed. She went in the pool with another instructor and had a 1 to 1 on buoyancy. It took 4hrs and a number of different exercises for her to get it finally