When did the breakdown in training occur?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Re the "swim" vs. "snorkel" test. I guess I'm just dense but I don't see any particular difference and how being permitted to kick 300 yards while keeping one's head in the water and breathing through a snorkel is somehow a "watered down" version of lying on one's back and kicking for 200 yards. If I were to actually judge, I'd say being able to kick while breathing through a snorkel for 300 yards is a better test of one's ability than lying on one's back and kicking and sculling for 200 yards.
 
This is the back of my 1970 YMCA card with the requirements. There was also a timed 900 yard swim with mask, fins and snorkle that had to be completed under the time limit. I think the 300 yard swim also had a time limit.
 

Attachments

  • c card back (Small).JPG
    c card back (Small).JPG
    23.8 KB · Views: 54
I have a question for you divers and instructors that have been around since before the training got watered down.
Anybody that was not around and doesn't know the facts, please refrain from throwing in your 2 cents. I want to know from people that were actually there and saw this first hand.
I was there for the second half, I know the stories from the first half.
I constantly hear about how the training used to be back in the day. I want to know once and for all just for my own education when (what year/time frame) this breakdown in training occured and who was responsible for it.
Was this an incremental slow softening or was it a one time radical reorganization of standards?
In the late 1950s and early 1960s the recreational diving community, took the knowledge base and skills that were being used by the research diving community in its 100 hr program for entry level divers and started using that to qualify recreational instructors. In the same time frame the 40 hour program (no hours for open water dives) was becoming standard both for shop cards (shops issued their own) as well as for the programs of the newly created agencies. In large part this was an outgrowth of the National Diving Patrol column that grew into NAUI in Skin Diver Magazine. Standard texts then were Science of Skin and Scuba (then New Science ...) and the U.S. Navy Diving Manual.

The first change was to add required open water dives, and they became part of the 40 hour requirement. In the late 1960s through the mid 1970s NAUI was the dominant agency with a very rigorous ITC that still closely resembled the Scripps Model 100 hour course with teaching theory and course conduct topics added in. PADI grew their instructor base by issuing cards, first for $10.00 and later $25.00 to anyone who could make the claim that they were already teaching diving ... all it took was a personal letter stating that you have taught diving in the military, at a shop, at a school, just about anything. Well ... though the late 1970s the number of training fatalities soared, PADI's response to this was to do something unheard of, create two levels of instructor (back then, hard as it may be to believe, there were two certifications, Basic Diver and Instructor ... that was it). So PADI created the Open Water Instructor, thus demoting all of their previous clients to confined water only instructors. It took a few years, but this did bring the training fatalities down from (If memory serves) sixty odd to the more typical twenty odd.

Things settled down, DEMA was formed, and in the early to mid 1980s DEMA asked each agency to identify a few instructors who were to experiment with a new format, an 18 hour, 4 dive course that was supposed to breathe new life into the moribund diving industry. I was one of the instructors asked to try the course out. I ran two sessions, I found it to be woefully inadequate for training divers for temperate diving, and that was what I report back, in person, to DEMA at a meeting at one of those La Hacienda hotels near Los Angeles. It seemed to be a dead issue, but in retrospect it is clear that PADI had decided, in advance of doing the research, that they were going to embrace the reduced program and with DEMA's help, shove it down the the throat of an unsuspecting public. The result is a classic study in the effective marketing of an inferior product to an unsophisticated public.
Here's what I know so far:
I spoke to an older instructor who told me bits and pieces of how and when this happened but he is never really clear on facts. Somewhere around the late 70's or early 80's the training broke down to allow the industry to become more family friendly and all inclusive. That was about the time of the first DEMA show and the time frame when PADI was formed, which was the main agency that was responsible for the "new standard". A bunch of shops and instructors (?) got together and agreed that training was too hard and too many people were being denied certifications. The sport was going nowhere and something had to be done. Compound that with many tropical vacation spots opening up and the need to get people underwater within a few days so they could enjoy the pretty fish and voila! you have the 3 day course.

Is this fairly accurate?
Maybe someone with experience can fill in the details.

Thank you.
It wasn't a few shops and instructors, it was US Divers and PADI that made it happen.
 
The original poster asked when the "breakdown in training" occured and how the training got "watered down" without explaining what that means, specifically.

ZKY, can you be more specific? It's hard to talk meaningfully about when something happened if we don't know what that something is, exactly.

"Breakdown in training (standards)" and "watered down" are terms I heard from other people, I didn't make them up. You tell me what they mean, this is the whole reason for the initial post.

I wanted to learn some dates (years) when training standards were relaxed and what it was that they removed or revised to shorten and simplify the courses.
I also wanted to know what agencies initiated these changes and why.

If I need to be more clear please let me know.

Thanks

Z
 
An example of "breakdown in training standards" would be the reduced swimming requriments. I believe the attitude is that advances in equipment the biggest being the BC with the auto inflator has diminished the need for most divers to be strong swimmers. Of course on the rare times that they made need to be,....well not so good. Today a person would need to take a basic class,OW,and AOW to get close to covering what we covered in my class in 68. This to me is the watering down. A person has to take more classes and spend more money to get what is probably less than the education I got in one long class. I doubt if times/date are possible to nail down. I doubt things changed at the same pace everywhere. The change seems to be ongoing even today. Wasn't longago there was a thread about PADI dropping buddy breathing, watering down the learning IMO.
 
.... Things settled down, DEMA was formed, and in the early to mid 1980s DEMA asked each agency to identify a few instructors who were to experiment with a new format, an 18 hour, 4 dive course that was supposed to breathe new life into the moribund diving industry.....

Hi Thal,

I really wonder if the changes (reduced instruction time, lowered standards) did "breathe new life into the industry" by making scuba less "exclusive", or not....

My 1976 PADI class was longer, larger, and I guess somewaht "exclusive" when compared to the current PADI curriculum (several divers did not pass the swimming portions), but of the divers that did pass the course, a fairly good percentage stuck with diving.... I knew that 30-40% were still diving regularly after a few yeas.

Isn't the current average less than 10% who continue diving after OW, and even fewer continue with the sport after a few years have past (I cannot remember where I read that, so it may be wrong).

Best wishes.
 
Since I finished my YMCA Class I have maybe buddy breathed 300 yards with a snorkel 20 or 18 times. I don't long for the good old days. My students today are better equipped, better and more conscienciously trained, and just as good or better than we were back then.

Do they really need to know how to carry weight down until the wetsuit compresses, stash it and pick it up to ascend slow enough? Do they need to know how to skip breathe so a single 60 CF tank lasts all day? Do they really need to know how to clear a double hose reg? Buddy breathing when I've got an octo - hell no!

The core skills were taught then and are still taught now. The bs has been gently weeded out. Breathing from a tank without a reg? I can do it! Swimming over another diver with a funnel and catching their exhaled air? I can do that too. Do I need to? Nah! Do I really miss an ex-navy instructor in a blue speedo yelling at me if I didn't get it right the first time.

Do you wish you still had to hang your arm out the window to signal a turn in your driver license test? Or maybe learn to use the manual choke to start your car on a cool morning?

Equipment improves, diving conditions change, and we progress. If you didn't get adequate training in your open water class come join ours.

BTW - The only thing I miss about the old YMCA program is Frankie Wingert.
 
My own opinion is that the driving factor was the change in diving destinations and the ageing out of the original NAVY instructors.

Prior to the mid-70's almost all diving was done within 100 miles of your house. So, Most diving was clustered around the coasts and the Great Lakes. These areas tend to be a lot more demanding and the instructors came out of the NAVY mold, they taught the way and the information that they had been taught.

Then, in the mid-70's the Caribbean resorts started to take off. Now a diver could go down South, dive without a wet suit in warm clear water. At the same time air travel was becoming much easier. So, the industry saw the potential of the one or two week per year diver which is still the market today. Then add in all of the potential divers that don't live within 100 miles of major waters (mid west and western US) who also would never see the PNW or Maine waters in October.

These divers just didn't want to do all of the training that was needed to dive off of New England when they just never were going to do that. The result is the training programs which make you somewhat safe in Bonaire and dangerous in Long Island Sound.
 
I completed my OW, AOW and Rescue training back in the early '80s. Just this past year my son completed his OW and AOW and I must admit, I thought the class was watered down as compared to what I went through.
 

Back
Top Bottom