Where to train - Mexico or Florida?

[Camerone]

I find myself with the enviable situation of having to take some vacation days from work this winter (or I'll lose the time). I guess that means I've been working too much and diving too little It'll also be a milestone birthday for me (30...ouch...) and so I'd like to reward myself as well.

Anyway, the thought's crept into my head that I would like to burn a couple of weeks and do a full cave cert, from start to finish. There seems to be a choice of two places to go - either Florida or Mexico, and I can think of pros and cons for either, but, not being a cave diver, I'd like to defer to those a little more experienced. Florida is holding a slight advantage right now because I can take a few days to skydive at one of the big dropzones and relax before starting the dive training, but polishing up my Spanish south of the border wouldn't hurt, either

I realize that in the end, it mostly comes down to the instructor, but I'm sure that the locations, too, play a role. So, I'd like to throw it out to the board for recommendations either way - location and trainer, and, of course, why to choose one place over the other...

I've but two basic rules for how I'd like to do it:

1. Got to do the whole thing in one fell swoop - I'm not the type of person who wants to do part and then come back later and finish it. I just don't work that way in life, and, barring me failing training standards, I need a place that would be willing to "go" the whole way.
2. Any cert org is fine, other than GUE. It doesn't bother me if the instructor offers GUE training, as long as he/she also offers and will train and certify me through the standards of another recognized organization. I don't want to get in a flame war over it, so let's just leave it at me personally being totally not impressed with our local GUE/DIR shop and therefore not wanting to do anything that might in some way benefit that organization. Others are more than welcome to their own point of view, of course.

Otherwise, I'm open to just about anything.

As for my background (if it helps) - I'm fairly active as a diver, at around 100+ per year or so, at least at the current rate I'm going. This autumn will be the end of my first year diving. By fall, that's around 100 dives total; hopefully it'll be in the 140-150 range by February or so, when I'd like to get out of the soggy Seattle weather. All my dives are cold water, drysuit dives, from #1 onward, and of my total, just 14 are open circuit dives, with the rest all on a rebreather. Ergo, the availability (and quality) of gear rental will have to factor in the equation, although price shouldn't...but I own no open circuit gear (reg/bc/etc) other than my bailout and argon regulators, and, although I'm more than happy to dive OC in a cave/cavern environment, I don't intend to use OC gear in open water.

For me, this is almost a one-time thing, or a very occasional thing, but I really want to do it start-to-finish.

So...with all that long winded post said, I'm definitely wanting for recommendations as to where, who, and, most importantly why I should take my winter vacation in one of those spots...

 

[JDostal]

Camerone -

Some people will say you shouldn't do your training in one fell swoop. You should do it in parts to gain expereince at each level so you are as proficient as you can be. It's a personal decision, but just figured I would let you know that it's another one of those things that people have strong opinions about.

They do offer a full 8-day course that will take you all the way through.

I did my training with the NSS-CDS in Florida. I'm doing it in two parts - I've done my Intro To Cave training. This winter I'm going down and just cave diving for a a week. Next winter I'm going to go down and do my Apprentice/Full training. That's just the way I've decided to do it. Even with the 30cf penetration gas limitation, I'm still able to get 1000+ feet back into a cave.

My instructor actually brought up the topic of location training during our class. He said that cave divers that are trained in Florida are typically more able to handle any type of cave than divers trained elsewhere. The main reason was flow - Ginnie has some pretty high flow caves - if you can learn how to dive in that strong flow, it makes other type of cave diving easier. I'd tend to agree. After doing a couple of dives in the Devils system (high flow) and then moving over to Peacock (low, low flow) it's a world of difference. Makes Peacock seem easy....

That would be the reasoning behind my recommendation to do your training in Florida - you will be exposed to much "tougher" cave conditions, so when you dive anywhere else you won't have as many stressors on you when you dive.

As far as who....yipes, that's another can of worms. Everyone has their favorite instructor. I liked mine - a lot. He was fun, yet very strict. He had a way of critiquing your dive that definitely got his point across without yelling - yet if you messed up during the dive he would certainly let you know. But it was always constructive. Like others will say - do your research, find an instructor you like, interview them. Everyone will recommend an instructor, but I talked to a few of them, asked some opinions, made my decision.

 

[Camerone]

Thanks for the recommendation on Florida. I hadn't considered the flow rate issue, but you bring up a really good point. Open water dives up here can be challenging at times (dive the Tacoma Narrows when it's not slack...) but I'm guessing that confined spaces take that to a whole new level.

If you want to PM me with recommendations for your instructor and a web site or e-mail, I'd be much obliged. I'm starting to put a list of "recommended" folks together to fire off a brief interview mail to and figure out who'd be a good match for me.

-C

 

[Wendy]

Some people will say you shouldn't do your training in one fell swoop. You should do it in parts to gain expereince at each level so you are as proficient as you can be. It's a personal decision, but just figured I would let you know that it's another one of those things that people have strong opinions about.

I am one of those people that feel strongly about this, but I can't stop people from doing it all in a week and I don't have to dive with those that do. I just like the idea of becoming proficient at one thing before you move on to another. Ok off my soap box.

As far as you not liking GUE, I would like to bring up that there is a difference between west coast and east DIR attitudes. Don't give up on them yet. Although you would need DIRF to take a GUE cvae course.

There is a list of instructors on both the NACD and NSS-CDS websites, and also IANTD offers cave courses.

Are you proficient in doubles as well?

 

[Diver Lori]

Florida for training....hands down. I trained in Florida and dive the caves there about 3 to 4 times a year. I also go annually to Akumal in the winter. There is no comparison between the diving conditions. Mexico is so easy, it's almost effortless, Florida on the other hand, will whip your tush.

 

[Mako Mark]

Good point about the conditions, Mexico is lovely cave diving, shallow warm and pretty with very low flow.

Kinda makes you wondre why they do it in florida huh?

If you need a referral for an instructor down here, PM me, I know the best around.

 

[Camerone]

As far as you not liking GUE, I would like to bring up that there is a difference between west coast and east DIR attitudes. Don't give up on them yet. Although you would need DIRF to take a GUE cvae course.

I've heard that; you're the second person to say that. There's a guy out here in Seattle, who happens to be a GUE instructor and whose opinion I also trust. He was with us last weekend on a boat trip I took, and he encouraged me to e-mail some East Coast folks and talk to them. He even apologized for the three really bad experiences I've had out here on the West Coast, although he personally had nothing to do with the incidents. FWIW, I am taking his advice (and yours, now, I suppose) and e-mailing a few people to talk to them, but it will take a lot to undo my experiences out here.

There is a list of instructors on both the NACD and NSS-CDS websites, and also IANTD offers cave courses.

Yup, I've seen the lists, and they're helpful, but I'm more concerned with location pro/con and personal experiences. It's a personality mesh and attitude thing for me as much as it is "training standards." For instance, I know ahead of time that I'd never get along with a rigid, militaristic type instructor (of which I've seen too many), or one that wasn't extremely knowledgeable about the "why" as well as the "how" behind things. I spent too many years as both a scientist and an engineer to want to pay to deal with people who don't question every assumption and justify it to themselves rationally and logically before repeating it. I have zero blind faith; I love to learn, but I absolutely demand a well thought out, "why," as much as instruction in, "how."

Are you proficient in doubles as well?

I'm not, and I admit it freely, although I certainly have access to them if I want to borrow them. I'm strictly a rebreather diver, and have been since literally a couple of weeks past my basic OW course. I really don't like open water, open circuit diving - to put it bluntly, "I do it if I have to, but I won't enjoy it." Well, as much as one can't enjoy a dive, anyway

I hear there are some places who will do the cave course on an Inspiration, but my plan of record was to do it on doubles. Although an Inspiration is most definitely and decidely my next major scuba upgrade/purchase, even if I picked up the stock unit from my LDS tomorrow, and started in the very next training class, I wouldn't be at a personal comfort level by winter to use it in a cave. I figured I'd borrow or rent a set of doubles and a BP/Wing for a little while out here and get used to them, weighting, trim, etc, before heading down to Florida or Mexico.

I certainly see the merits of cave diving on open circuit gear, and would gladly use it for those overhead situations, but other than OW training or proficiency dives, I would likely not use open circuit gear in open water.

 

[GoBlue!]

Interesting comments on the flow in Florida vs. Mexico; I hadn't really thought about it in terms of training either.

I don't want to hijack the thread here, but if one were considering doing the training in stages, would it be sensable to consider doing cavern +/- Intro to Cave in Mexico (getting used to the overhead environs & all that accompany diving there) where the conditions may be a bit gentler & then move on to Florida for full cave?

Jim

 

[crawford]

Interesting comments on the flow in Florida vs. Mexico; I hadn't really thought about it in terms of training either.

I don't want to hijack the thread here, but if one were considering doing the training in stages, would it be sensable to consider doing cavern +/- Intro to Cave in Mexico (getting used to the overhead environs & all that accompany diving there) where the conditions may be a bit gentler & then move on to Florida for full cave?

Jim

Florida has a good combination of low flow, high flow caves, so there's no need to go to Mexico to get training. It's all right there in NFL. There are very easy cavern/Intro dives at Peacock, Cow (downstream), moderate dives with some flow like Little River, the there's Devils Ear which is STRONG flow, also Manatee. You've got a good mix all within driving distance of one another.

 

[Compressor]

Is Ginnie Springs a good Place to get Cave Training?
Thank you.