Who "Fails" Open Water Scuba Certification and why

[TMHeimer]

What would be the correct stroke to use while staying afloat while the boat picks you up? What would happen if you didn't perform that stroke within swimming standards?

Either "drown proofing" (if you have heavy legs like me), egg beater kicking, or lying spread eagle on your back (this works for me in only salt water). If I didn't drown proof and was in fresh water I would sink and drown. But these things aren't swim strokes per se. You may find yourself unable to catch the boat (and buddy as well fell in) due to wind or current and possible be able to make it to shore -- with a proper stroke that may get you a mile or two.

I know these are rare happenings, and that one can scuba dive perfectly without any knowledge of proper swim strokes.
We could discuss scenarios all day that may require swimming. If you're fishing off a dock or rock jetty and fall into water deeper than you can stand in you'd better know how to swim-- at least somewhat, especially if current takes you out. Unless you know there's someone right next to you on the jetty who knows rescue techniques. Then there are rip currents when you're in the water at the beach.

 

[Colliam7]

I don't think we disagree on a lot, but will reply.

I don't think we do, either.

I grew up in a coastal city (Norfolk, VA), in a social community where - if you didn't know how to swim - you were almost shunned, as some kind of lesser being. My wife did, as well. When we started a family, we made sure ALL of our children learned to swim at an early age - starting with Water Babies. The same has been the case for our four (so far) grandchildren. It is hard for me to understand why everybody doesn't know how to swim - isn't that a basic life skill like learning to brush your teeth?

I find it disappointing, in fact distressing, that so many young people in this age DO NOT lean how to swim. I encounter many of these individuals as scuba students. But, I was part of a different age. I understand where we are now. It is what it is.

I know that computer games have taken the place of 'wet' sports for many. And, by 'wet' I don't mean only swimming. I really mean 'outdoors, in real weather'. I loved playing soccer in high school, ESPECIALLY IF IT WAS RAINING AND MUDDY. I ran track, and I was at my best, running the half mile and the 440 relay, in rainy weather. IOW, I played outdoor sports - where I got sweaty, and dirty, and wet (and even injured) - and I LOVED all of it. But, I was part of a different age. I understand where we are now. It is what it is.

As a scuba Instructor, I am a realist. Students come to me wanting to: a) become serious DIVERS, and / or just b) experience the underwater world, and / or just c) check the box that allows them to say they are a certified 'diver', and / or just d) have a scuba certification so they can dive on their honeymoon in the Caribbean or Asia (after which they will probably never dive again). I will work with all of them - that is what I am being paid to do. I will help them acquire skills, I will teach them what (I sincerely believe) they need to know to be safe in the water as underwater tourists, if not divers, and I will help them meet the Performance Requirements for certification as an Open Water Diver.

If they are not proficient swimmers, I will tell them they need to 'work on that'. I will not 'fail' them on that basis, IF they can meet the Watermanship requirements, AND master the required dive skills. (BTW, the Watermanship skills are NOT part of the 24 scuba skills for which 'mastery' is required). I am not interested in whether or not they could compete in the Olympics, and give Mark Spitz or Michael Phelps a run for their money. I am interested in whether they are SAFE - underwater, strapped into a scuba unit.

 

[scubadada]

I was recently on a boat in Boynton Beach Florida on a warm, calm day. There were two students with their instructor doing dive 3&4 of their OW cert. I assume they did dive 1&2 at the Blue Heron Bridge, but that is not confirmed. One of the two divers was unable to descend on dive 3 due to claustophobia or something similar in the open water. She did not do dive 4 and was not certified. I hope she is able to get past this and become a certified diver.

 

[TMHeimer]

I don't think we do, either.

I grew up in a coastal city (Norfolk, VA), in a social community where - if you didn't know how to swim - you were almost shunned, as some kind of lesser being. My wife did, as well. When we started a family, we made sure ALL of our children learned to swim at an early age - starting with Water Babies. The same has been the case for our four (so far) grandchildren. It is hard for me to understand why everybody doesn't know how to swim - isn't that a basic life skill like learning to brush your teeth?

I find it disappointing, in fact distressing, that so many young people in this age DO NOT lean how to swim. I encounter many of these individuals as scuba students. But, I was part of a different age. I understand where we are now. It is what it is.

I know that computer games have taken the place of 'wet' sports for many. And, by 'wet' I don't mean only swimming. I really mean 'outdoors, in real weather'. I loved playing soccer in high school, ESPECIALLY IF IT WAS RAINING AND MUDDY. I ran track, and I was at my best, running the half mile and the 440 relay, in rainy weather. IOW, I played outdoor sports - where I got sweaty, and dirty, and wet (and even injured) - and I LOVED all of it. But, I was part of a different age. I understand where we are now. It is what it is.

As a scuba Instructor, I am a realist. Students come to me wanting to: a) become serious DIVERS, and / or just b) experience the underwater world, and / or just c) check the box that allows them to say they are a certified 'diver', and / or just d) have a scuba certification so they can dive on their honeymoon in the Caribbean or Asia (after which they will probably never dive again). I will work with all of them - that is what I am being paid to do. I will help them acquire skills, I will teach them what (I sincerely believe) they need to know to be safe in the water as underwater tourists, if not divers, and I will help them meet the Performance Requirements for certification as an Open Water Diver.

If they are not proficient swimmers, I will tell them they need to 'work on that'. I will not 'fail' them on that basis, IF they can meet the Watermanship requirements, AND master the required dive skills. (BTW, the Watermanship skills are NOT part of the 24 scuba skills for which 'mastery' is required). I am not interested in whether or not they could compete in the Olympics, and give Mark Spitz or Michael Phelps a run for their money. I am interested in whether they are SAFE - underwater, strapped into a scuba unit.

Agree on everything. One of my shortcomings is thinking everyone should have at least decent "water" experience prior to signing up for scuba. It is what it is.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

It is true that there is now, for PADI and probably for many other agencies, an 'either-or' option for the swim. The scuba student can swim 200 yards/meters WITHOUT mask, fins, snorkel, OR 300 yards/meters WITH mask, fins snorkel.

I personally require students to complete the 300 yard M/F/S swim, and do not allow them to simply swim 200 yards. I believe the 300 yard M/F/S swim represents a valid test of their swimming ability and, moreover, it provides for me an assessment of their ability to breath through their mouth, and to swim using fins, both of which are important in scuba training and diving.

I have worked with several students who could swim - in fact, one that I particularly remember had been on his high school swim team some years before pursuing scuba training - but who had considerable difficulty breathing through their mouth with their face in the water, and using fins - they simply had trouble getting used to swimming with big 'things' on their feet.

I do not see the 300 yard M/F/S option as somehow allowing poor swimmers to 'get by'. Rather, it is an important assessment tool for me.

Very interesting.
Somehow I always thought the MSF swim was some how a cop out on doing the regular swim, at least that was the stigma that was presented to me.
However, what you say makes perfect sense.
I’ve known people who are fantastic swimmers with perfect strokes who can swim for miles and miles, but get them underwater and they absolutely don’t like it. My sister is one who is a great swimmer but when mentioned learning diving she told me “F no!”
They are surface people that must have natural air to breathe and sinking under freaks them out.
What about people with shoulder problems? I had a buddy who had to postpone his 400 yd swim for DM because of chronic shoulder problem which eventually led to surgery to fix it. He really couldn’t do much of a swim stroke because he couldn’t get his arm higher than his head but the MSF swim was no problem, and regular diving was no problem because you fin swim with your arms at your sides.
If instructors insist on a 200 yd free swim in combo with the MSF swim, does that mean that anybody with shoulder issues should be banned from scuba?

 

[stretchthepenn]

What would be the correct stroke to use while staying afloat while the boat picks you up? What would happen if you didn't perform that stroke within swimming standards?

I know you're being snarky, but there are correct answers.

Re: stroke choice -- In flat, calm conditions, the elementary backstroke or the breaststroke are ideal for maintaining forward motion and expending minimal energy. With waves, the breaststroke or survival stroke are best options.

Re: consequences -- Exhaustion and potentially death.

</swiminstructorfor15years>

 

[Colliam7]

What about people with shoulder problems? I had a buddy who had to postpone his 400 yd swim for DM because of chronic shoulder problem which eventually led to surgery to fix it. He really couldn’t do much of a swim stroke because he couldn’t get his arm higher than his head but the MSF swim was no problem, and regular diving was no problem because you fin swim with your arms at your sides.
If instructors insist on a 200 yd free swim in combo with the MSF swim, does that mean that anybody with shoulder issues should be banned from scuba?

Good question! And, the DM example is particularly relevant.

Just as I require my OW students to perform the 300 yard M/F/S swim, I presume there are Instructors who require their students to perform the 200 yard swim. Probably, the students would need to use a breast stroke, or survival stroke (e.g. sidestroke) if their shoulder issue was like that of your DMC friend.

It has always been my understanding that the required swims at the DM and Instructor level are intended to primarily demonstrate in-water stamina on the part of the candidate, as well as speed to an extent, since they may be called upon to rescue / assist divers / students. At the DMC level, they accrue points on the basis of their speed / times for a M/F/S swim, a (shorter) non-M/F/S swim, and a Tired Diver Tow, as well as a 15 min survival float. I have had some candidates with limitations on shoulder movement (e.g. rotator cuff damage) complete a very (very, very) slow 400 yard non-M/F/S swim and get their one point for completing it, then getting 4's and 5's on their M/F/S swim and TDT, and their survival float (and the final Waterskills Exercise #5), and meet the point goal.

And, in cases where I have seen actual in-water assistance being rendered to a distressed diver, the 'rescuer' has used M/F/S, and used a breast stroke in order to keep an eye on the diver to whom they were rendering assistance. While a freestyle swim stroke might have allowed them to reach the diver a little faster, the benefits of maintaining a visual reference outweighed the slight increase in speed, and the fins enhanced the speed.

 

[Angelo Farina]

If instructors insist on a 200 yd free swim in combo with the MSF swim, does that mean that anybody with shoulder issues should be banned from scuba?

At my time, in 1975, for being admitted at the OW course you had to present a medical certificate of idoneity to agonistic sports. The same certification required for Olympic athletes.
Such a certificate can only be issued by a sport medicine center affiliated with the national health system.
The medical examination was quite complete and could be passed only by people in perfect physical conditions. It did include blood test, urine test, ECG under load and spirometry.
In no way a patient suffering of articular problems had been admitted to a scuba diving course...
And even now, albeit such a thorough medical examination is not required anymore for recreational scuba courses, still you require a medical certificate released by your own doctor, saying that you are in good health and that you do not suffer of any pathology which can impact adversely on swimming and diving.
I doubt that my doctor would release such a certification to someone suffering of severe shoulder problems.
Considering all the legal and insurance issues, I suppose that also in the USA a proper medical certification is required for being admitted to a scuba diving course.

 

[lowwall]

Considering all the legal and insurance issues, I suppose that also in the USA a proper medical certification is required for being admitted to a scuba diving course.

All the major agencies in the US allow self-certification. They hand out a form with a lengthy list of medical conditions for prospective divers to review. They will only need to obtain medical clearance from a physician if they answer "yes" to anything on the list.

Nothing prevents students from lying on the form, but it does serve the purpose of shifting liability to the student if they do.

 

[lairdb]

Considering all the legal and insurance issues, I suppose that also in the USA a proper medical certification is required for being admitted to a scuba diving course.

All the major agencies in the US allow self-certification. They hand out a form with a lengthy list of medical conditions for prospective divers to review. They will only need to obtain medical clearance from a physician if they answer "yes" to anything on the list.

Nothing prevents students from lying on the form, but it does serve the purpose of shifting liability to the student if they do.

WRSTC’s older form is here: http://wrstc.com/downloads/10 - Medical Guidelines.pdf.

It has recently been completely revamped, and a good article about the development of the new version is here: The RSTC 'Medical Statement' form has been updated, with the new version here: https://www.uhms.org/images/Recreat...ical_Participant_Questionnaire_2020-06-17.pdf.

Arguably, “Back, arm or leg problems following surgery, injury or fracture?”, from the old version, would apply, leading to a physician sign off requirement. The new one might let the impaired shoulder diver dodge it.