Why do we teach flutter kick at all?

[gypsyjim]

Nice review, Dan. How are the footpockets on those? Any brand options on the footpocket? If not, are the stock ones soft? I'm getting some cysts from pressure points on my fins. The Riffes are the hardest, most uncomfortable ones I ever used. (sorry for the slight derail)

Derailing the derailment is not allowed.

 

[beaverdivers]

I would like to see standards that required OW students to learn how to frog kick, and flutter kick.

Agreed!

We teach OW students the four main kicks; flutter, dolphin, frog & scissor.
Then they learn by kinesthetic learning.

Our 4 year old granddaughter did a " perfect " backstroke the other day. Asked " How did you learn to do back-stoke? "
She said " I just watched you grand-ma. ( BTW, grand-ma was one of the best in the US for her age in masters swimming. )

Re: Why do we teach flutter kick at all?

Last week I was snorkeling with Sperm whales & Whale sharks. A flutter kick was very useful. Also, I used it to move through some currents while on SCUBA. Moreover, I just like to use different kick while diving. It helps to avoid cramps.

The flutter kick is an excellent kick to have in a diver's bag of skills.

I think most students pick up the flutter kick easiest, the frog kick is more of a challenge and takes more practice.

Both should be taught properly!

 

[windapp]

Who says there is no rest period in the flutter kick? I teach my students to "glide" with each flutter kick like coasting after pedaling a bike. They learn not to bicycle as that just waste energy and one night they learn, frog, and a one finned dolphin- in case they lose a fin. It is easier for most people to master the flutter as with a good frog you need to rotate the fins 90 degrees which some people can not do. Remember most diver never go in caves or ship wrecks so the frog can easily become one more thing that was taught and forgotten along the way.

The trouble with the glide phase in the flutter kick is that you have to intentionally stop the mommentum of your legs.

 

[danvolker]

Nice review, Dan. How are the footpockets on those? Any brand options on the footpocket? If not, are the stock ones soft? I'm getting some cysts from pressure points on my fins. The Riffes are the hardest, most uncomfortable ones I ever used. (sorry for the slight derail)

Hank..this is a good question...if you use the stiffest DiveR freedive blades as I do, you can't use any of the available full foot pockets, as they are not structurally stiff enough to handle the torque from the blades...the full foot pockets I started with, bent so much the blade was largely being wasted.....I only discovered this since my first pair had the open heel silent hunter pockets for use with my Dry Suit.. When I switched to summer and full foot pockets, the fins were no where near as functional.......only the Riffe Silent Hunter open heel footbed will work....it is much better than most open heel designs, more of a hybrid , and is structurally able to handle huge torque....I had to get a thin soled bootie to fit well in the foot pocket--and if you are getting pressure points on your foot pockets, then trying the silent hunters with several different thickness booties would be important. You might also use a orthotic support SN Footbed X-Static Kit Shoe Accessory to further enhance the power transfer and eliminate the poor fit of 99.95 % of all fins on the market.

 

[Hank49]

Thanks Dan. Great info.
I stopped using my full foot Silent Hunters in Jan this year and switched to Pursuit (now called Speardiver) with Omer Millennium pockets. The blades are medium stiffness. Speardiver C90 Fins - FreediveStore.com

I used these to scuba dive Tubbataha Reef in May this year. No problems at all. I did get some strange looks from other scuba divers we'd pass while under water. Camo wetsuit, long blades.....haha

 

[brucetrinity]

I was just reading the story of the girl who almost died in the Florida cave this weekend, and watching some of the video of the cave, and it occurred to me . . . Why is flutter kick the default kick for divers? Very few new divers do it well, which would probably be the case with frog kick, too -- but at least the frog kick has a rest phase, and the potential to reduce the mess made by novices, so long as they are not horribly out of trim. I would assume we teach flutter kick because it is the most like swimming -- but diving is not swimming, so why do we use a kick underwater that may not be the best one?

Has anybody ever tried teaching OW students to frog kick? (We don't, but we do try to encourage them into a modified flutter kind of kick.)

Great question! I have used a frog kick for about 50 years ... the only time I use a flutter is if I don't have enough side-to-side room. My usual swim (surface) kick is breast stroke or back stroke. But .... I don't use split fins which pretty much require a tight flutter.

 

[Sheri SGR]

yes we used to teach flutter frog and dolphin in the pool giving students an option, I personally use frog kicking all the time when underwater and flutter mostly when surface swimming on my back. After a little bit of practice most new students could pick them all up.

 

[lozadora]

But surely if you're taught to do a flutter kick properly (legs straight) but control your speed then this is safe and more efficient as it uses up so little energy?

I used to snorkel all the time as a child so I had a good technique on my Open Water course at the weekend, but it was shocking to see how some people were using their fins underwater - knees bent, legs flailing everywhere. As well as looking like a lot of errort it just creates to much motion and looks messy.

 

[paolov]

My take on flutter kick.

To do an ideal flutter kick, each person should match their leg capacity with the right size of fin.
The right size of fin would be comfort and fit on the feet, length of fin, width of fin, rigidity of fin should match the persons leg strength.

A lot of times i observe that new divers would rent fins that fit their feet, then they go diving.

Here you would see some struggling with the fin as their legs give way to the force of the water on the move, hence the fins glide leaving the person at the mercy of bad fit on the size of the fin not the foot pocket size.

In this instance you see them as if they fold their knees and push back the fin with a totally inefficient way of finning. This quickly tires them and frustrates them when they see others learning doing the flutter kick with ease.

So with proper fit of fins, the flutter kick would be easiest for mobility in water at any depth. If this is taken to account Fin size < leg strength for those learning the skill.

 

[egnpaz]

It´s kinda funny most pro divers think it´s pro to use the frog kick instead of the flutter kick, and they are just two different styles with different uses advantages and disadvantages. As somebody well said try using the frog kick in mild or strong current, likewise try using flutter kick in a cave diving. But in an open water dive with no current is the same using frog or flutter kick. Most pro diver should focus more in teaching WHEN to use each techinique instead of teaching whats cool and pro whats not!