Why does DIR reject quick disconnects?

[MookieMoose]

Hi, I'm new to this board. I've been lurking in the shadows for a while now trying to learn about DIR, but now I have a question to which I have not been able to find a real alswer. This is a serious question, I'm not a troll, and I'm not trying to start a fight, just looking for answers.

I understand that the DIR crowd rejects the Transpac-style harness/wings as a BC because the shoulder straps contain quick disconnects and these are considered to be a failure point. What I would like to know is WHY these are considered to be a failure point? Have any studies been undertaken that demonstrate that these connectors are less safe, or more prone to failure, or was theire rejection based more on the opinion of a few people, ro common wisdom, or anecdotal reports, etc?

I'm not trying to say that the rejection of these types of connectors by DIR is either good or bad, I would simply like to know on what basis this rejection was made. I am a researcher by career, and evidence is important to me.

Thanks in advance.

Cam

 

[Dan Gibson]

Ever set a tank down too hard on these plastic quick disconnect? The dive will be over before it ever started.

Hi, I'm new to this board. I've been lurking in the shadows for a while now trying to learn about DIR, but now I have a question to which I have not been able to find a real alswer. This is a serious question, I'm not a troll, and I'm not trying to start a fight, just looking for answers.

I understand that the DIR crowd rejects the Transpac-style harness/wings as a BC because the shoulder straps contain quick disconnects and these are considered to be a failure point. What I would like to know is WHY these are considered to be a failure point? Have any studies been undertaken that demonstrate that these connectors are less safe, or more prone to failure, or was theire rejection based more on the opinion of a few people, ro common wisdom, or anecdotal reports, etc?

I'm not trying to say that the rejection of these types of connectors by DIR is either good or bad, I would simply like to know on what basis this rejection was made. I am a researcher by career, and evidence is important to me.

Thanks in advance.

Cam

 

[DepartureDiver]

everything can fail eventually. do you really want to take the risk? my buddy of 20 years has never ran out of gas either, but an alternate is still needed. so I don't think you are going to find any data. but that doesn't mean the risk is worth it. the concept is to minimize as many risks as possible. I agree that a rig should still stay in place if a shoulder clip/release fails, but a risk is a risk and the concept of keep it simple works.

 

[klausbh]

Think about it this way: if there are buckles, they might break - if there aren't any buckles, they can't. Since there is no real advantage to having buckles, why add something that might break?

-Klaus

 

[HammerNoMore]

Also note that the QD's are not the only reason Transpac's are not DIR.

 

[Mo2vation]

This is a serious question, I'm not a troll, and I'm not trying to start a fight, just looking for answers.

yeah - its too bad that a lot of people seriously looking for answers in the DIR room feel compelled to start their posts with this. On behalf of many of my over zealous DIR bretheren who are sincere but who's tact could use some refinement, I apologize. Now, lets get it on.

I understand that the DIR crowd rejects the Transpac-style harness/wings as a BC because the shoulder straps contain quick disconnects and these are considered to be a failure point. What I would like to know is WHY these are considered to be a failure point?

Turn it around. Don't think of a reason to take it away, think of why it should be added. What's the benefit - if there is no substantial benefit, why add it? If the harness on your BP/W has been custom fit to you and your exposure suit, why would you need to add buckles to adjust it? When you get a fine suit tailored to fit you, they don't add elastic or a sans-a-belt sliding waist line. Would a buckle make it easier to get in and out of, sure. So 5 seconds (at donning) of my 1 hour dive I benefit. Add in the possibility (albeit slight) of some wacky failure and the weakening of the harness and there is simply not a reason to add a buckle to the finely tuned, custom fit BC.

I'm not trying to say that the rejection of these types of connectors by DIR is either good or bad, I would simply like to know on what basis this rejection was made. I am a researcher by career, and evidence is important to me.

Thanks in advance.

Cam

As you dive into DIR and make a sincere and objective effort to look for the "reasons" for the stuff, you may be surprised to find that there really are reasons for this stuff.

DIR isn't about gear. You'll read that again and again here. People get hung up on the geat thing, but its only one part of the "system." Get the Fundies book. Lurk about some more, ask some questions, and most importantly, go diving with us. Do your research on the water - see of you notice a difference in our prep, our rig, our buddy awareness, our routines, our watermanship. See if its for you. If not, cool.

Remember, the stakes are higher for a lot of the DIR community - deep water wrecking, caving, mad deco, etc, etc. Meaning their margin of error is narrower. I'm in the minority, in as much as I'm a simple recreational diver that dives DIR. I flop in, and about an hour later, I get out. I wait awhile, and I do it all again. It works fine for me. It might for you, too.


K



Memo to self - dang...three quote boxes in one reply. Mix in a few bold-face types, maybe some italics, remove the lucid discussion and replace it with some nonsensical ravings and some bumpersticker pimping and this could be a post by Genesis.

 

[DepartureDiver]

yeah - its too bad that a lot of people seriously looking for answers in the DIR room feel compelled to start their posts with this. On behalf of many of my over zealous DIR bretheren who are sincere but who's tact could use some refinement, I apologize. Lets get it on.

good point. no one should have to be timid about asking a question.

 

[darkpup]

Having only recently taken the DIR-F course and still working on completing it, I received two responses to a similar question.

The question asked was more general in nature. Why are quick releases not DIR approved?

1st answer: Because plastic quick releases are a potential fail point since they can break. The example given to me to emphasize this was from a boat dive experience where someone left a tank standing up, and it fell over on someone's BC crushing a quick release. The diver then attempted to duct tape the shoulder strap so they could complete the rest of their dives. Although I can not personaly validate this example, the concept of heavy pieces of metal impacting plastic buckles is easy to visualize, and although it may be preventable or the plastic may be strong enough to take the impact, it is in my opinion a possible scenario.

2nd answer: This answer came in the form of a question. Why add another element to the BP Harness when it works the way it is? I'm paraphrasing here, but the jist of it was that the quick release does not add anything to make the in water dive experience more efficient, and thus it's not needed.

Your question for analytical data from actual studies to determine whether quick releases are proven fail points or not suggests that you are attempting to find ammunition to support the use of quick releases. Being a software engineer I also originally had similar questions for actual data to back up DIR Philosophies, but later learned a single question that is often used to evaluate gear.

Does this piece of gear improve the efficiency of the in water dive experience?

From my experience, the DIR approved BP/Harness setup is simple, and makes my dives quite a bit more efficient in the water (read: more fun). I haven't found a reason that would make me want to go back to using quick releases, even though I use to love them before taking the class.

~ Jason

 

[reubencahn]

One other reason given is that when harnesses with quick releases do break or wear out, replacement is not quick, easy or cheap. On the other hand, you can find basic harness webbing anywhere, replace your harness in at most an hour and pay very little to do it.

 

[Atticus]

A somewhat related question...

I dive a halcyon BP&W and have keepers installed such that the shoulder portion is a fixed length (keepers behind the backplate which prevent webbing from moving from the shoulder loops to the waist loop).

Some friends dive without the keepers so they can unbuckle the waist strap and enlarge the shoulders for donning/doffing.

The left waist strap has a D ring installed (stage bottle ring), so it cannot slide out more then a few inches. The right waist strap has the light and extra buckle which holds the light in place, so it too cannot slide out more than a few inches. I really can't see the rig "falling off", which was my first concern.

I haven't removed the keepers from my own rig, but I've considered it.

Comments?