Why don't other companies use open foot pocket?

[arrick]

The first thing that drew me to force fins is the open foot pocket. My toes always hurt in every other fin I tried until force fins.

Recently my LDS gave me an old pair of Mor Fin Delfin fins to try once they found out I use force fins, I guess they think their is some kind of connection. The sales rep left them at their store a long time ago and they couldn't even give the demo pair to anybody. I tried them out today. They feel like force fins when you kick but my toes started to hurt within about 2 minutes and they almost became blistered after about 5 minutes. If this fin would have had an open foot pocket they might have been successful. It seem to me any fin could be improved by an open foot pocket. Why don't they do it?

PS Has anybody else notice how well Force Fins hold their value. Every time I check ebay, even the oldest pair goes for at least $100. I might sell a couple of my pairs and use the money toward a set of purple tan deltas.

 

[Walter]

Other companies do have open toes fins. Not all companies and not on all fins. I like fins with closed toes. I suspect I'm not alone. The reason so many different designs are sold is different folks like different things.

Has anybody else notice how well Force Fins hold their value. Every time I check ebay, even the oldest pair goes for at least $100.

I recently saw a pair in a pawn shop for $25.

 

[meesier42]

First there is no other company that offers an open foot pocket like FF, some offer small water drains at the toes that they call open toe, but its nothing like the FF design.

As to the open foot pocket- there are a variety of reasons, the two main ones that I know

First- materials, other companies use cheap vulcanized rubber or TPU (thermoplastic) that can not take the tension/torsion loads that are generated by using the open foot design. Really, they can't even be left in your car when you run into the store on a warm day, they will warp horribly.

Second- feel, other companies have convinced the diving world that all the drag they feel on their feet, ankles, and knees is a measure of performance, the more you feel the faster you must be going. They would have to change every design out there and then spend countless dollars convincing the world to use the "new" fins without admitting they were wrong and they have been lying to everyone

Third- cost, lets be honest here, nearly every fin on the market cost less than $20 per pair to deliver to the store, yet sells for anywhere from $75-$200. If they were to use the high end materials that FF uses their cost would skyrocket and using their current pricing model would cost $500+. We are lucky that FF is a small family owned company that cares about the divers that spend their hard earned dollars on their fins, and they offer an absolute top of the line product at reasonable prices with the Original selling for $150-$180.

 

[Blair Mott]

I have been diving since 1981 and professionally since 1989 and I have used many different types of fins before I found about Force Fins. There are so many different details about Force Fins that makes it an advanced, high quality element of my diving kit, but in a nutshell for me it always comes down to the Patented Force Fin Open Foot Pocket design. I have yet to see or dive a pair of fins that uses this smart design that transfers the load away from your feet and to your legs.

Over the past few years I have seen all the manufacturers of SCUBA booties add to their line a bootie that has a very thick, hard sole that packs more punch than your running shoe. There is no flex and you’re ready to kick in doors and walk on glass – .
I like to flex my feet and the feel of freedom when I am diving wet so I use a flexible sole bootie. I often wondered why so many people are starting to use this type of boot and why I have found that most LDS are pushing this type of boot.

Last week our good friend Kabir came over to Force Fin HQ to show us some US Navy photos in a book he is reading. The Finishing School: Earning the Navy Seal Trident by Dick Couch. Some great photos of guys in Force Fin that neither of us had ever seen before-

Thanks again Kabir! We of course were talking diving and we shared thoughts about this type of thick sole boot and its attractiveness to divers today.

When you are using a fin with a closed foot pocket all the strain, stress and load is focused on your foot so could it be that to aid in pushing this load it is better to have your foot in a boot with no flex in its sole? If you don’t have your foot free in your fin why would you have it free in your boot? The hard sole does not allow your foot to flex so the strain is more manageable, hence the popularity in this style of SCUBA bootie that has a massive sole with no flex?

Thanks again for all your posts and interest in a smart fin- a Force Fin!

 

[meesier42]

I know one of the reasons,
look at the heal support of ForceFin, doesn't look like its there, but once you slip into the foot pocket you notice that the plastic extends beyond your arch/instep and contacts your heel bone. Now look at most other fins,specifically the Jet, the bottom support ends right in the middle of your instep. So that when you kick it torques your lower foot and strains the ball of your foot (the same part that is completely exposed w/FF). So, once again, they could fix there fins, but that cost money, and once again forces them to run a campaign explaining the improvements (costing more money) and then they have to try to save face and try to convince people they haven't been lied to yet again. Instead- they'll sell you hard sole booties that prevent this painful torsion on your foot.

 

[arrick]

I often wondered why people where those hard sole booties. They look like high top basketball shoes and very uncomfortable. I usually go commando with my force fins and I've never had a blister or any irritation. The only time I wear soft soled booties is when I know I have to walk over some rocks to get to a shore dive. I live on a beach with a little reef in front of it, so most of the time its just my mask, snorkel and force fins. Oh and a dive flag because of all the drunk, ignorant boaters.

 

[csicnomore]

Blair, I first saw Force Fins in one of Dick Couch's books about Navy Seals. It was a book about BUDS (basis underwater demolition) training and one of the pictures in the book was of students wearing Force Fins. I remember thinking they were training fins because they were so small! Now I have my own.

Dick Couch is a former Seal himself which gives a lot of credence to his books.

 

[Blair Mott]

Just a thought-

 

[uncleavi]

Blair, those jet fins hurt my feet looking at them!

 

[Blair Mott]

Uncleavi, hurt is right. I test full pocket fins from time to time and because they put so much strain on my foot, ankle and knees I can never see past the pain and evaluate the design or materials used for the fins. I all know is I can sure feel me fins.