why hasnt nitrox replaced compressed air completely?

[Centrals]

Quite a few of my clubmates claim the same, and also that the difference has become more pronounced through upper middle age (i.e. approaching or past the big five-oh). I'd love to know if there are any systematic studies on this.

I am well over that and never found nitrox could reduce fatigue. I only use nitrox if the dive is around 20-30m(square profile) otherwise air is the preferred gas.

 

[gopbroek]

Most of my diving is done on Nitrox but it is not a magic gas and it carries its own set of limitations. MOD and CNS 24 HR clock limits. If I am doing a 4 dive day I will switch to air for any planned shallow dives of 40’ or less otherwise my computer gets up against the 24 HR O2 limits on the following morning dive. If I do the same 4 dive day on air I will run into NDL’s so I try to do at least the deeper dives on Nitrox to reduce my nitrogen loading. There is also a cost and availability factor, which adds up. MOD can be another limiting factor but with a 132’ Max limit on EAN32 I do not usually see this as a major factor, for the profiles I dive.
Like others have said, I select the gas based upon availability and the planned dive profiles, there is really no ‘one size fits all’.

 

[String]

it's no a question of issue, it's a question of exhaustion.

There isn't a single shred of evidence that nitrox will have any effect on that. No statistics to back it up and no theoretical mechanism of action.

i often end because not enough gaz to do safely my deco stops. :cool2:
when you dive twice the Rosalie Muller a day, then a night dive, you appreciate nitrox.

Used to work in Egypt including there. Thistlegorm 2 dives with 1hr SI is the only dive day there where Nitrox provided any benefit when leading guided dives. In some circumstances its useful such as that. Majority it isn't.

The Rosalie Muller deck leve is OK for nitrox but for dive 1 EAN is restrictive in that it puts half the wreck off limits depth wise.

and it's generally free.

I can get Nitrox free if i want so to me thats no issue although it does cost the company substantially more. My reason for not using "free" nitrox is absolutely no benefit and on some dives it restricts you a lot more than air. As above, it's a tool that i'll use as and when required but in reality for my every day working dives that isn't very often.

 

[Doc]

We were asked by the regional management about the viability of offering free nitrox. We did the maths and for us it wasn't.....
As the benefits for the customer were exactly zero we didn't bother.

You're getting closer to the real point. Unfortunately, this precise point is invisible to most but industry professionals. You are in Egypt, away from the heavily marketed and advertised North American diver, and have that extra advantage.

The advent of nitrox in the period of 1991-1996 went from "devil gas" directly to a new monetization (local dive shop courses) of the stagnant dive instructor income.

Something that can obviously be taught with a workbook and a quiz all of a sudden required dive training and another green and yellow patch to sew on your jacket.

This created the "continuing education" path to commercial success of any Instructor.

The price bump for the EAN, added to the training income? A no brainer for struggling dive shops. And look- a green and yellow computer!

Nothing is cool unless you have the badging. Just as chicks-dig-it (or that was the plan) when we glued the Cobra badging on our Mustang 286, the mere appearance of green and yellow makes me know that I'm in with the in-crowd. You might not have one, but how many "I'm a nitrox diver" stickers/patches have you seen? On every rack, on a lot of brag jackets.



I love analogies. Another industry fought progress, jut as DEMA prohibited any mention of nirox in 1991, the ski industry banned snowboards from their mountains in the 1980's. They woke up and smelled the coffee. Money will correct a lot of paranoid delusions.

The original 1985 Rutkowski IAND manuals taught us that it was just another tool, to be used when appropriate.

Man has been searching for a cure that only Viagra has given us, but the non-scientific anecdotal hype about nitrox making me feel frisky? If you think so, Skippy.

We (the North American market) have had the snot marketed out of us over nitrox since the 1990's. It went from Geezer Gas to the "only way to go".



No different than Titanium regulators, Tech-Black watch dials , MOF, and lesser~ yet no less insidious, stupid marketing crap.

Yes, I am a nitrox heretic. It's a tool, use it when appropriate and needed.

 

[ajduplessis]

Reasons... Requires extra training.
Costs a lot more to actually blend and fill.
Can take longer to fill in terms of dive centre resources.
May require special equipment on the part of the diver depending on how its blended.
Restricts your dive profile depending on depth and available mix.
Provides absolutely no benefits at all for dives ended with air consumption vs NDLs so increases the cost of a dive for no benefits at all.

Nitrox is a handy tool that comes in really useful only in a specific set of depths and sites. It's not some magically cure-all gas. Sometimes its less useful than air.

disagree
do 4 dives a day, even in NDL, and you will see the difference.
availability is a problem

Mainly because of the differences/no-agreement between parties ^^^^^

Disclaimer: I am not picking on anyone

 

[Lorenzoid]

the major cost in diving for most of us are overheads which dont vary appreciably
with the number of dives done in a day:air tickets/car rental,hotel accomodation/insurance/food& entertainment/gear & gear rental


if nitrox can double your diving time, effectively giving you twice the bang for your buck for a modest increase in
tank filling expense, why is compressed air still offered (is it too risky for the average diver?)


thx

I think previous comments have covered it thoroughly: availability, cost of fills, cost of certification, limited range of depths, lazy people don't want to analyze tank contents, etc.

For me, I use a lot of naturally occurring 21% nitrox because it's available everywhere at no extra cost. As for cost, even though I might be spending a ton of money to get to, say, an Indonesian liveaboard, when it comes time to charge that credit card, I find I am reluctant to add in the neighborhood of $400 to the already humongous (to me) total for my wife and I to upgrade to Nitrox for a week. For that money, we could stop over in Singapore and scarf some chili crabs. If paying for more than one diver for some significant number of days of diving, the nitrox supplement cost is not insignificant to some of us. I know that may be penny-wise and pound-foolish (why not add that safety buffer, right?), but that's how the discussion goes in our house when I'm booking a trip.

As for availability, there are indeed still some places where Nitrox is simply not offered as an option no matter how much money you are oozing.

Oh, wait, I'll add one more thought: Even though Nitrox can substantially increase one's bottom time, there are a few of us oddballs who feel air gives us (just) enough bottom time to satisfy our desires. As I've mentioned in other threads where efforts to increase bottom time have been discussed, my wife and I are generally content with dives under an hour in our relaxed vacation-style diving. At the end of a long day, we're getting chilly, and the sirens of happy hour are calling.

 

[String]

The price bump for the EAN, added to the training income? A no brainer for struggling dive shops. And look- a green and yellow computer!

There was with all seriousness a yellow/green nitrox SNORKEL and a Spare Air just to reinforce pointless. It's all marketing.

Jesus. That looks like a guy you'd almost certainly NEVER want to dive with. Generally the more cards or badges they throw at you on checkin in the worse the diver.

It's not just 3rd world countries cost is an issue - a J of O2 in the UK will cost a crazy amount and a nitrox tank is even more of a costly proposition. I've got nothing against it and there are circumstances where it can be very useful but in a large set of circumstances its useless or has no benefit and in some instances is actually counter-productive.

Some places do offer "free" nitrox (ie the dive cost is increased to provide the free gas) and some areas have profiles where its beneficial but thats not everywhere.

I have before now come across some idiots who insist on nitrox to dive to a max depth of 3m under a jetty for an hour and ive more than happily taken their money off them. We had a customer years ago who asked for Nitrox-21 (its better filtered so healthier than air apparently - he was insistent on it). Again i had no issue taking his money off him even though the compressor is triple filtered anyway, even for air. If people are gullible and sold by marketing i have no moral issues in transferring their money from their wallet to mine.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I've had skin bends twice. That's why I use it for many dives. Am I off base there too String?

 

[String]

I've had skin bends twice. That's why I use it for many dives. Am I off base there too String?

There is no statistical evidence that using nitrox as air reduces the risk of DCS. Stats were analysed and showed no difference in DCS rates.

 

[Storker]

Although I fully understand the desire for an increased safety margin and think I understand the point of using nitrox if you're doing three to five dives in one day, I don't really see a huge increase in bottom time if you're doing just a couple of dives in a day. With a couple of hours of SI, the type of profiles I usually dive and my SAC rate (15-16SLM or about .5 cuf in a wetsuit, 16-18 in a drysuit), it's usually gas, not NDL that's limiting my bottom time. And I'm not using an Al80, my standard tank is a 10L 300 bar or a 15L 200 bar.

You guys must have awesome SAC rates...


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