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Wing and Octopus position

Discussion in 'Buoyancy Compensators (BC's) and Weight Systems' started by BlueTrin, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. BrokenSailor

    BrokenSailor Angel Fish

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    hmmm.... That makes sense. The two times in my life when buddies had a problem underwater and needed air from me, it has been my primary 2nd stage they took from my mouth, leaving me with my secondary. There was no Donate involved. Glad they are rethinking that whole octopus is for your buddy concept in training.
     
  2. Zef

    Zef Divemaster

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    If you follow the advice presented here and are planning on diving a single tank setup, the only thing I would change is get a 24" or 26" hose instead of a 22". The 22" works well with a double tank set up because the valve/regulator position is off to one side or the other...with a single tank, the valve/regulator is positioned centered behind the diver and often a 22" hose can be a tad too short...it does not get noticed when the octo is hanging on the necklace but when you put the octo in your mouth and need to turn your head to the left it can tug uncomfortably.

    -Z
     
  3. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC PADI Pro

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    Bungee’d backup comes from the left post on a set of twins and it’s a 22” hose. Moving it to the center (on a single tank rig) gives you MORE available length, not less. Adding 2” or more to the hose plus the 4ish inches you gain when going to a single tank can make it too long.

    Imagine it this way, on a twin set, the hose is 22” long. On a single tank, even though the hose is still 22”, you get effectively 24-26” equivalent worth of movement.

    If anything, I find people move to a shorter hose when going to a single tank rig to make up for moving the first stage to the center of your back from your left shoulder.
     
  4. Zef

    Zef Divemaster

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    I don't dive a twin tank setup, only single tank, but my experience disagrees with the notion you are putting forth about 22" being more than adequate with a single tank setup. I recently swapped my 22" hose out for a 26" because there was strain when I turned my head to the left with the octo in my mouth. I had borrowed a 24" hose from a friend and that alleviated the problem, but the local dive shop did not carry 24" hoses, so I purchased a 26" and it works great. It is not excessively long, especially considering that the hose length is measured from end to end so roughly 3/4 of an inch is consumed by the sections threaded into each regulator stage.

    Obviously this is a case of "mileage may vary" and may be dependent on factors such as how high the tank/tank valve sits relative to the persons shoulders/head as well as the configuration the LP ports on the 1st stage being used. All I know is that with my setup (MR22 1st stage) I found the 22" hose too short and now have a 22" hose collecting dust in a bin.

    To the OP, it may be prudent to take your BC and regulator to a shop and put it on with different hose lengths to see what will work best for you.

    -Z
     
  5. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC PADI Pro

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    Sure, the important thing is that you get the hose length you need.

    What I am pointing out is that for whatever length hose you have, it will effecively be longer on a single tank setup than on a twin set. Therefore, If a 22” is correct on a twin set, it will be more than enough on a single because you are physically moving it’s location closer to where the hose is pointing. Adding additional hose would be counterintuitive, and may be detrimental. If a 22” hose is too short, get a longer one. If a 22” hose works correctly on a set of twins, it WILL be more than adequate on a single.

    Maybe i’m Just not explaining it well. Let’s say you need to put water in a pot. If you have 10 feet of garden hose, and move the tap closer, you still have that 10 feet of garden hose, but the water goes right to your pot. Now let’s say you move the tap, AND make the hose longer, now you have to bend the hose to put water in the pot because you’ve moved the tap AND made the hose longer, but the position of the pot hasn’t changed.

    Does that make any sense or is it making it more confusing?
     
    BlueTrin likes this.
  6. KenGordon

    KenGordon Rebreather Pilot

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    He is going to turn up one day with a configuration which is backwards and they with think “OMG, another one has been on the Internet!”. Then they need to figure out what to do next. This is likely to result in awkward conversations. He will be diving with other club members and other students and they will have expectations that the AS process works in the way he and they have been trained. On a boat of 12, 11 with be wondering why he doesn’t just get his primary fixed, and thinking it is a bit poor to be diving without an AS.

    Once he has done the GUE course and is trained in a proper hog loop he will be expected to show his buddy how the system works. Since the proper process for that configuration includes checking it is rigged properly that is not a huge overhead, although leaving it until you are on the boat is a bit late really it is what generally happens.

    There might be an rule not to dive with other Ocean Divers in those configurations though. Given they are inexperienced and have enough going on without random AS systems to deal with. This rule stops me diving a rebreather with Ocean Divers.

    In the OP’s branch there are a variety of people who will react at all points of the spectrum from saying ok, through laughing at him and all the way to calling him a **** very loudly.
     
    BlueTrin likes this.
  7. KenGordon

    KenGordon Rebreather Pilot

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    I have a 22in hose I give to people to try this. I tell them they can keep it if they think it is better than what they have already, I still have it. If I can find it the OP can have it to try.
     
    BlueTrin likes this.
  8. Frontpointer1000

    Frontpointer1000 Solo Diver

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    Whatever you do, I hope you don’t have your donate reg on a bolt snap to your d ring that requires anything more than pulling the reg. Having to futz with a bolt snap in a donate situation is a bad idea.

    Long hose is primary and what you donate

    Short hose is on a necklace
     
    EireDiver606 likes this.
  9. BlueTrin

    BlueTrin ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Ok assuming that I don’t want to donate my primary for now, to stay in line with what I have the procedures I have been trained with.

    I’ll keep my secondary on a long hose as it is what I want to donate.

    How should I store my secondary excess hose length ? As you said, clipping or anything that is not quick release is a bad idea. With a jacket BCD i was just stowing the secondary in the front opening of the pocket tucking it in.
     
  10. Frontpointer1000

    Frontpointer1000 Solo Diver

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    Time to change

    As others have mentioned in this post, and as anyone who has been under an actual “donate“ situation, what gets donated is actually the primary. Few people are under Duress and stress and able to think through signing that they are out of air and would like to “borrow“ your secondary. The reality is they grab your primary out of your mouth.

    You should practice this, you should train for this, you should plan for this.

    In whatever situation is easiest for you, build your new set up, and practice with a buddy these different donate scenarios. It will become second nature very quickly.
     
    BrokenSailor and Zef like this.

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