Worst trend in Scuba Diving instruction many of us have ever seen...Avoid Groupon!

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I'm surprised none of those divers got their masks kicked off. My first dive was similar to this...only we were in about 35' of water, not 5...
If the divers are certified, can't they simply grab a buddy and do their own thing away from the group?
 
it is a stupid expectation that i will be loyal to you just because i trained at you facility or because you gave me a groupon(or similar) discount.
loyalty is built through service, quality and delivery. only after exceptional performance will a customer be more loyal than more price-sensitive.

i am in the motorcycle gear business and don't "expect" loyalty. But i do get a a lot of repeat business due to what and how i deliver.

if i put something on sale there are two scenarios:
a) this is just a regular season discount - please expect the product and service to be exactly the same as a regular purchase. this is what groupon leads you to be believe.
b) this is a closeout item and does not carry the same warranty, latest materials, return/exchange policy etc. this is what usually the scuba shops deliver.

in the long run it really is about the scuba shop - they are (hopefully) capable of delivering good service even for groupon customers if they want.

it is an extremely childish expectation (in my opinion) that hey you must buy your equipment from me and be loyal to me lol
 
For years I have listened to LDS's complain that the true cost of training divers is not covered by the cost of the classes themselves, but whatever profit they make is recovered by related sales of gear. Training divers, and gaining their loyalty so that the diver becomes a customer of both gear and travel, is a big part of their business plan.

I am puzzled to see a lot of LDS's jumping on the coupon bandwagon, and cutting their bottom line even further than it already was. Not sure what their business modal is, unless they are finding they can sell a lot more than just the training, by reaching a new market attracted by huge illusions of a "discount".

In my experience, the customer that you bring in with a coupon or "discount" will never be a loyal customer, as they will always continue to chase the illusion of "savings", and their future purchases will also be with whoever they think has the best coupon or sale.
 
Apparently half-off coupons don't build customer loyalty and Groupon is almost broke. The only people who made out well were several rounds of Groupon execs.

Everybody else including the dealers and investors got boned.

Don't Cry For Groupon's Andrew Mason - Forbes

One of the main problems with Groupon's business model is that it is easily duplicated. Now companies as diverse as Amazon and the Miami Herald are offering similar deals. This is besides other competitors such as Living Social.
 
For years I have listened to LDS's complain that the true cost of training divers is not covered by the cost of the classes themselves, but whatever profit they make is recovered by related sales of gear. Training divers, and gaining their loyalty so that the diver becomes a customer of both gear and travel, is a big part of their business plan.

Have you ever considered it's part of a marketing budget? Besides, most new trainees don't have mask, fins, snorkel. I know I way overpaid for these items, even with a "student discount". It must help offset some lost income.

I am puzzled to see a lot of LDS's jumping on the coupon bandwagon, and cutting their bottom line even further than it already was. Not sure what their business modal is, unless they are finding they can sell a lot more than just the training, by reaching a new market attracted by huge illusions of a "discount".

In my experience, the customer that you bring in with a coupon or "discount" will never be a loyal customer, as they will always continue to chase the illusion of "savings", and their future purchases will also be with whoever they think has the best coupon or sale.

Those are some pretty blanket statements and are false generalizations. I'm a Grouponer. I did my class through Groupon. I constantly return to my dive shop and have paid for additional training, rented tanks, and done boat trips. I've also bought some gear. My buddy who also did his class through Groupon purchased all his gear from the LDS and money wasn't an object for him on that purchase.

I'm also not rich and would not have gotten into the hobby when I did without the upfront discount that made it too good a deal to pass up. I've since dumped a couple thousand dollars into the scuba economy. At the end of the day, the discount was negligible and a small percentage of all the costs, but it is what triggered the spending. I have always wanted to scuba dive, but could never justify the upfront costs for training.

Why is it a customer can price shop vehicles, groceries, gas, tv's, computers, but not scuba equipment? I was a deal shopper for my equipment. My LDS offered me a used rental deal but for $100 more I got higher end all new equipment by shopping around. It was well worth it to me. They knew my budget and I know they have high mark ups. If they wanted my business, they had a chance to make it worth it to me but they didn't. But I still return for boat trips, additional training, tanks, accessories, etc.

Does this mean I can't walk into another dive shop? Sure I can! But I still consider the shop where I did my training as "home". I will always give them the first opportunity if possible. You make it sound like we should have to sign a contract saying we can only buy at their shop. I got news for you, it's called capitalism and free market.
 
Have you ever considered it's part of a marketing budget? Besides, most new trainees don't have mask, fins, snorkel. I know I way overpaid for these items, even with a "student discount". It must help offset some lost income.

Those are some pretty blanket statements and are false generalizations. I'm a Grouponer. I did my class through Groupon. I constantly return to my dive shop and have paid for additional training, rented tanks, and done boat trips. I've also bought some gear. My buddy who also did his class through Groupon purchased all his gear from the LDS and money wasn't an object for him on that purchase.

I'm also not rich and would not have gotten into the hobby when I did without the upfront discount that made it too good a deal to pass up. I've since dumped a couple thousand dollars into the scuba economy. At the end of the day, the discount was negligible and a small percentage of all the costs, but it is what triggered the spending. I have always wanted to scuba dive, but could never justify the upfront costs for training.

Why is it a customer can price shop vehicles, groceries, gas, tv's, computers, but not scuba equipment? I was a deal shopper for my equipment. My LDS offered me a used rental deal but for $100 more I got higher end all new equipment by shopping around. It was well worth it to me. They knew my budget and I know they have high mark ups. If they wanted my business, they had a chance to make it worth it to me but they didn't. But I still return for boat trips, additional training, tanks, accessories, etc.

Does this mean I can't walk into another dive shop? Sure I can! But I still consider the shop where I did my training as "home". I will always give them the first opportunity if possible. You make it sound like we should have to sign a contract saying we can only buy at their shop. I got news for you, it's called capitalism and free market.

Why are you assuming that my "blanket statement" is specific to scuba, or that it applies to all who use coupons?
My reference is to "price shopping" customers in general, based on over 40 years working in the retail environment. My observations from non dive related retail matches pretty closely the experience of acquaintances in the LDS retail environment.
None of these observations are effected by your specific experience at all.
 
Why are you assuming that my "blanket statement" is specific to scuba, or that it applies to all who use coupons?

Last I checked, this topic is specific to scuba and Groupon. In the context of your statement, I am proof that your experiences are not always the case.

None of these observations are effected by your specific experience at all.

Fair enough, but this thread is complaining about me and others exactly like me. I did my OW training at the exact dive location that the OP was complaining about. Of all the dive locations in the world, it doesn't get any closer than my experience than that.

Groupon - Check
OW training - Check
Blue Heron Bridge - Check
Mucking up the location - Probably/Check

This is a stupid thread because Groupon isn't the trend issue. Groupon is just making it more affordable. My instructor was very good and very personable. He was patient with those that struggled and insisted they pass the exercises. I did my Nitrox with him and he joined me on a 2 tank boat drift dive in which he didn't have any requirement to do so. But he told every student, let me know when you do your first boat dive and I'll try to be there. Doing my AOW with the same LDS as well (got sick and couldn't finish last two dives, hoping to make up soon).

Could I afford all my gear at their shop, unfortunately not. Sue me.
 
I'd like to share my Groupon OW experience. Apologies for the length :)

Back in 2010 a Sydney dive shop offered Padi open water classes for $169. Included in the deal was all learning material, a log book, Aquatec Mask and snorkel, Aquatec Duo-vortex fins, booties, 1 theory class, 2 pool dives and 4 ocean dives.
I lived on the Gold Coast (900km away) but the deal looked amazing and having walked into a dive shop in Brisbane a couple of months before to inquire about becoming certified and told $550 for certification, plus I'd have to buy my own mask, snorkel and fins beforehand, they then proceeded to try to sell me a set for $250... I left with the realisation that a single mother with a part time job was never going to become a scuba diver.

It took me 4 months from purchasing the Groupon before I could secure a booking and I headed off to Sydney. I arrived at the shop at the arranged time and it was closed, but about 15 other students were there also. After an hour or so we gave up, but returned the next day to more students waiting and the shop still closed. I contacted Groupon who promised to get back to me. A day later they called and said there was a problem with the booking system and to be at the shop that evening at 7 to do our theory. At 8:30 pm, someone turned up... appeared annoyed that 8 of us had decided to wait, then unlocked the door, handed us all a Padi book and told us to read it and be at the pool tomorrow morning at 9 am. It was tough getting through the book that night but I managed it and got myself to the pool at the time specified.

The attendant there then informed us that we would have to pay entry, $15 for divers because the tanks chipped the tiles. We weren't told this at all beforehand and I had to chip in on 2 other students entry because they hadn't brought enough money. Our instructor arrived at 11:30am. He seemed really annoyed that we hadn't done our exam or watched the Padi videos we'd never even heard of. By 1 pm he had sorted out enough dodgy gear to get us into the pool. One girl couldn't swim so he put a bcd on her and pumped it up like a life jacket. We stood in a circle in waist deep water and he led us one by one to the deep end and back. We got out and waited, expecting a second dive where we'd learn some skills. Nope... that was it. He told us to meet him at La Parouse the following morning.

Our ocean dive 1 & 2 were done on a single tank. I left the water with 165 bar after dive 2. I was maybe under the water a total of 6 minutes for the whole 2 dives. I got to a depth of 5 - 6 metres when the weights fell out of the bcd and I started floating up. The instructor grabbed my tank and pushed me down, then tried to get me to take my reg out of my mouth... I had no idea what he meant and shook my head and he let me go. I popped up at the surface and waited for the class to come up. They stayed down about 10 minutes. I was told I would have to pay for the lost weights and they are $10 a kg. The second dive that day was only marginally better. I dropped down to about 7 metres and we swam a short way. Vis was about 3 metres so we stayed pretty bunched up. Somebody kicked my reg out of my mouth but I managed to get it back in... breathing a load of water because I didn't know to purge. We surfaced, and did the surface nav part back to the exit.

I was scared. That night, I told my buddy I didn't think scuba was for me afterall. She felt the same. We called a classmate who was coping a little better than us because he had done a discover scuba through a different shop recently and had some idea what should be happening. He asked us to come down to the dive site the next day and he was stay with us. The next day only 4 out of the 8 in the class showed up. The instructor didn't show. I was still incredibly nervous and wandered over to a different scuba school getting ready for their class to discuss my nerves. Their instructor had a chat and gave me some confidence... his parting words though were once you have your licence, please go find a reputable dive shop and get checked out. He must have called our dive shop then because half an hour later a different instructor turned up, angry because it was his day off, and angry because someone had complained about the way the instruction was going.

Dive 3 was about 20 minutes and we did actually do some skills - mask clearing, pivotting on our fins and ceaser is all I really remember. Our 4th dive was more recreational, lasted 25 minutes (same tank) and I saw a grouper (the only fish I actually remember during our whole course.) I came up with 15 bar left because we were told that there were boats overhead and we couldn't come up anywhere but near the shore. I had advised the instructor several times that I was getting low but only turned back when things were getting dire. One girl came back with less than me, nobody other than the instructor had more than 30.

I was certified but completely unprepared to dive. I called Padi and told them exactly that. Nobody had ever checked if I had done a medical, I had but they didn't even ask. I dive with a fantastic shop on the Gold Coast. They took me back to the pool and only charged for the tanks... they'd heard about the shop I had been with and without them, I would probably have never dived again. I have done my Advanced with them, and rescue and have just started my Divemasters. I have been to the Philippines purely to dive and currently planning a dive trip to Jean Michel Cousteau's dive resort in Fiji in 4 months time.

Back to the groupon... although it was the catalyst to getting into the sport, I would be very hesitant to recommend getting your licence that way. On the light side, through our near death open water experiences, I made 4 great friends who I remain in regular contact with. All of us still dive but were retrained elsewhere. Padi took the licence off the dive shop not long after this experience but they still offer the course through Ausi... which isn't recognized anywhere despite what they tell you.
 
Last I checked, this topic is specific to scuba and Groupon. In the context of your statement, I am proof that your experiences are not always the case.

A single experience does not make data. Unfortunately data shows that Groupon does not produce reliable customers. Your dive shop is lucky that theirs did. (For the record, my dive shop offers check out dives at the Blue Heron bridge too- and we're in Iowa. I'm not planning on taking them up on that offer. To the quarry for me.)

I wish I could have had a groupon for my OW cert. It's costing me $600 + fins (have a mask and snorkel already) and transportation!
 
Last I checked, this topic is specific to scuba and Groupon. In the context of your statement, I am proof that your experiences are not always the case.





This is a stupid thread because Groupon isn't the trend issue. Groupon is just making it more affordable. My instructor was very good and very personable.
.

To me this was about the disturbing cultural changes that have occurred in the last 20 years....In the 70's, the thinking was to give first time dive students the best and most complete training possible, and to mandate real skills and abilities to handle actual emergency scenarios, including harrassment drills.
Today we have come to a different place...one where the thinking is that it is not really desirable to train thoroughly or comprehensively for OW I divers, but to get them in cheaply, easily, and to make it so that almost anyone with a credit card can pass. This is today's reality.

There has been a Trend over more than 2 decades, in which skill levels of divers just out of OW1, have been relaxed more and more, and in which even the skills of a growing percentage of instructors teaching these classes has become lower....

This makes Groupon something like an ANABOLIC STEROID for turning out high volume and lower quality divers.....Groupon won't make all instructors degrade their class quality and it won't make all student divers worse on graduation--just as Anabolic Steroids won't make all Weight Lifters big---there are plenty of gym rats that have tried in vain to get big with steroids, but found they just don't have the genes for BIG.

And so I have met Instructors from some Dive Shops that DO turn out good certified divers with Groupon.....but to me this is like seeing the Steroid is just not working on them--they refuse to lose quality, and the Groupon has no real effect on them....but as with Steroids, a great many people WILL be EFFECTED with Groupon.....and there may well be long term health risks :)
 

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