Your personal evolution in diving, and an etiquette question

[chillyinCanada]

Potentially, you guys were getting bad drops and he was trying to get back to the beginning or middle of the site.

 

[JohnnyC]

If you didn't talk to the shop about what type of dives you're looking for, you really can't expect them to cater to your wants or needs through osmosis. If they say the dives are one way because of environmental factors, it's your choice to make the dive or not. If they say the dives are one way because the majority of the group wants to dive that way, it's your choice to make the dive or not. If they say the dives are one way because that's the way they do things, it's your choice to dive with them or find a shop more willing to accommodate you. If you don't communicate your expectations with the shop and the DM prior to your dives, you can't expect them all to go your way.

 

[dianna912]

If you didn't talk to the shop about what type of dives you're looking for, you really can't expect them to cater to your wants or needs through osmosis. If they say the dives are one way because of environmental factors, it's your choice to make the dive or not. If they say the dives are one way because the majority of the group wants to dive that way, it's your choice to make the dive or not. If they say the dives are one way because that's the way they do things, it's your choice to dive with them or find a shop more willing to accommodate you. If you don't communicate your expectations with the shop and the DM prior to your dives, you can't expect them all to go your way.

Unfortunately, on a liveaboard, we don’t have other options. I always communicate that we like to take a very slow pace, and the DMs consistently tell us that they also take a slow pace... apparently we have very different definitions, though.


I’ve read this thread, and contacted our next potential liveaboard (Red Sea) and communicated that we basically like to stay in one area for each dive, and shoot macros. Hopefully that will get the point across or they will tell us if it’s a good fit.

Would it be helpful for me to go through my DM certification? Would boats be more comfortable giving us more freedom if I do this? I’ve put in a request through my job for a move to Hawaii, and hopefully that will happen in the next five years. I want to volunteer in reef conservation when we move there, and teach other divers how to be good stewards of the reefs. That is what I would be using my DM for eventually, hopefully.

 

[JohnnyC]

Unfortunately, on a liveaboard, we don’t have other options. I always communicate that we like to take a very slow pace, and the DMs consistently tell us that they also take a slow pace... apparently we have very different definitions, though.


I’ve read this thread, and contacted our next potential liveaboard (Red Sea) and communicated that we basically like to stay in one area for each dive, and shoot macros. Hopefully that will get the point across or they will tell us if it’s a good fit.

Would it be helpful for me to go through my DM certification? Would boats be more comfortable giving us more freedom if I do this? I’ve put in a request through my job for a move to Hawaii, and hopefully that will happen in the next five years. I want to volunteer in reef conservation when we move there, and teach other divers how to be good stewards of the reefs. That is what I would be using my DM for eventually, hopefully.

DM may or may not make a difference. I don't even show my DM card.

As far as liveaboard diving, you're gonna get what you get. Doing a liveaboard with a place with significant current is probably not going to get you much macro opportunity, and you need to be prepared to adjust your plans to deal with that. Like you said, you don't have any other options, so you either accept that you like to see small stuff and it's not possible and you go ahead and enjoy the dives you get, or you choose to adjust your travel plans to better fit your style of diving.

In places where it is available, you may be better off hiring a private DM for you and your husband for those dives with the specific intent that you dive the way you want to dive, and the normal DM will go with the other group and do whatever dive he wants to lead.

Either way, you need to communicate your desires and expectations beforehand, and be aware that you may or may not get the dives you want if you decide to go ahead and dive with that operation.

 

[The Chairman]

There is no reason for that to ever happen.

Hear, hear! Let them do the work and find YOU. After all, you're on vacation: they're at work.

We do carry our own safety sausages.

Often, if I get separated from the group and especially the flag, I'll pop a sausage from depth. Why not? If the boat is paying attention, they can keep track of many sausages. It's kept me from being left on a reef.

 

[scubadada]

...I’ve read this thread, and contacted our next potential liveaboard (Red Sea) and communicated that we basically like to stay in one area for each dive, and shoot macros. Hopefully that will get the point across or they will tell us if it’s a good fit...

I did back to back weeks on the RSA I in 2016 Red Sea Aggressor April-May 2016. Many of the dives were in significant current, some in blue water, and required that the group generally stay together. This was particularly true for Brothers, Daedalus, and Elphinestone, as well as a few others. On some dives, it was perfectly reasonable to dive independently with your buddy. Most, but not all dives were from tenders and we frequently deployed our SMBs to facilitate pick up. The trip I took on the Red Sea would not fit your style of diving particularly well, though some of it would. The reefs were gorgeous and covered with life.

On the other hand, I went out on the Cayman Aggressor V last fall Cayman Aggressor V, November 24-December 1, 2018. All dives were from the yacht, there was little to no current, independent diving with your buddy was the rule rather than the exception, though there was a guide in the water for the dives. A trip like this would be nearly ideal for your style of diving.

 

[Kharon]

Anyways, all this to say: is it selfish to insist on my style of diving and hope that maybe, like us, the other diver will learn from it?

I think it's a bit arrogant to think that anyone that doesn't prefer your style of diving needs to learn to do it your way. What makes your way the only/best way? And yes, I think it's very selfish to insist on your style in a group, especially if it's every dive. What makes you so important that you think no one elses preferences count?

I hate looking in cracks and crevices hoping to see some tiny macro thing. Nor do I race around continuously moving. I wander slowly and browse and when I find something interesting I hang around till it no longer interests me and then move on.

I realize that not everyone (or even most) would like to dive the way I do. So I avoid groups, mostly dive solo (I have the card and usually can get permission), and when I must dive with a group I will dive the style the group wants. If they want to continuously move I'll stay with the group. If I see something interesting I can hover for a bit and then catch up. If they want to stay in one place I'll wander on the periphery.

Not my place to dictate how anyone else should dive. If you can only accept diving your style you need to dive only with people who like that style. Dive and let dive.

 

[dianna912]

I think it's a bit arrogant to think that anyone that doesn't prefer your style of diving needs to learn to do it your way. What makes your way the only/best way? And yes, I think it's very selfish to insist on your style in a group, especially if it's every dive. What makes you so important that you think no one elses preferences count?

I hate looking in cracks and crevices hoping to see some tiny macro thing. Nor do I race around continuously moving. I wander slowly and browse and when I find something interesting I hang around till it no longer interests me and then move on.

I realize that not everyone (or even most) would like to dive the way I do. So I avoid groups, mostly dive solo (I have the card and usually can get permission), and when I must dive with a group I will dive the style the group wants. If they want to continuously move I'll stay with the group. If I see something interesting I can hover for a bit and then catch up. If they want to stay in one place I'll wander on the periphery.

Not my place to dictate how anyone else should dive. If you can only accept diving your style you need to dive only with people who like that style. Dive and let dive.

I understand what you are saying. I definitely don’t think everyone has to learn to do it my way. I think there is a happy medium (that you’ve found) that this divemaster missed. Unfortunately, when I’d try to hover for a bit to look at something interesting, the DM was moving so fast that it was very difficult to ever catch back up. We’d swim right past a huge coral head without even taking the time to circle it and see what was on the other side, for example. I probably should’ve been a little more clear. The DM was too fast for all three of us. The third guy was probably more your style of diving, which would’ve been fine with us, really.

With just three divers, though, and two of the three of us wanting to thoroughly look around, only having the opportunity to do so on 2-3 out of 19 dives just seems crazy to me.

I understand what you are saying, though, and wanting the group to spend the whole dive on one coral head is going to be unreasonable. Hopefully the next trip we can find a happy medium.

 

[MrBigfins]

The happy medium suggested is most likely going to be different places on different dives. I ran into the same problem in Coz. For 2 days in a row I was burning air, fighting current all to see another blenny or our 30th toadfish and stay "close to the group. Finally I inquired with the rest of the group, and asked if we could mix it up a bit. The resulting dive was one of my all time favorites. We leisurely drifted through 3 dive sites and saw tons of life, both macro and larger with little to no effort. For the rest of the week we paired with the same people and took turns on slower dives focused on macro and the other half was more of a float by and see the bigger picture.

I think your best bet is to communicate better and more. If the previous dives werent what you were looking for, say so in a polite way. See if others feel the same and discuss how it can be adjusted. Also know that your desires cannot always be accommodated.

 

[agilis]

The happy medium suggested is most likely going to be different places on different dives. I ran into the same problem in Coz. For 2 days in a row I was burning air, fighting current all to see another blenny or our 30th toadfish and stay "close to the group. Finally I inquired with the rest of the group, and asked if we could mix it up a bit. The resulting dive was one of my all time favorites. We leisurely drifted through 3 dive sites and saw tons of life, both macro and larger with little to no effort. For the rest of the week we paired with the same people and took turns on slower dives focused on macro and the other half was more of a float by and see the bigger picture.

I think your best bet is to communicate better and more. If the previous dives werent what you were looking for, say so in a polite way. See if others feel the same and discuss how it can be adjusted. Also know that your desires cannot always be accommodated.

Diving slowly in a high current environment like Cozumel means riding the current. It certainly does not mean fighting the current to remain stationary. That is the equivalent of vigorous movement in a low current environment.