Your personal evolution in diving, and an etiquette question

[markmud]

Hi @markmud

I'm very glad you had a good time at the SB Surge in Curacao, a very, very easy place to dive. DMs or guides do not dive for you, they dive for the entire group. The well being of the entire group easily overrides the desires of a single or buddy team of divers. On easy dives, it is almost always possible to dive as an independent diver or buddy team. In more challenging environments. it may be required that you dive as a group. Try diving in the Red Sea, Cocos, Galapagos, you will get what I mean. Sorry, I get this demand as very prima donnaish.

Hi Scubadada,

Context please. We are not talking about a dive in an area with demanding conditions. You are correct, in those situations a diver is part of a coordinated team and must perform and conform to the group standard.

If you would read some of the other posts and my posts, we are talking about a discussion before the dive to form a consensus on what takes place during the dive. The OP never made any demands nor did any of the posters, I believe.

We are not SEALs on a dangerous mission. We are ALL vacation or avocational divers, out to have fun and spending a boat-load to do it.

Why should I assume that I must conform to your or anyone else's standard on a benign dive?

I am from an area where DMs are not in the water leading dives. You would not believe how responsible the vast majority of divers are. They dive to their comfort level and return to the boat safely.

Maybe this guided dive thing is to keep people employed?

It is OK for us to talk about it before we splash.

m

 

[scubadada]

Hi @markmud

No disagreement from me, I do nearly all my dives in SE FL solo. No better way to control your dive than going by yourself. I would suggest that if you really want to control you own dive under benign conditions, that you dive independently with your buddy or by yourself. You can try to adjust the pace of your group by discussing beforehand, but that may or may not be effective. It's a bit much to think that your wishes will granted on any particular dive.

 

[The Chairman]

I think the point of this whole thread was/is:
DMs work for us, communicate with them so a workable compromise can be devised so that all can either be happy, or happy that their wishes were given serious consideration.

Amen, brah! Amen! The dive op is not doing you a favor: it's their job. Tips are very optional in that regard.

I also thought the initial post was straight forward as well. Many, many DMs go way too fast. Few, if any, go slow enough for me. I'm OK with them leaving me. I don't need a baby sitter. I know how to catch up if I need to or the conditions require it. @markmud and I were in the same group in Curacao... yet he rarely saw me between splashing and at our safety stop. I tend to be an SOB (Same Ocean Buddy) unless you're paying me. So, get your act together if you want to dive with me while I'm on vacation. I believe in being a self sufficient diver, especially when I sport an AL40.

 

[scubadada]

Oh, come on Pete, the majority of divers on a trip like this are not self sufficient or independent. It they were, they would not be complaining about the pace the DM takes

 

[markmud]

Hi @markmud

No disagreement from me, I do nearly all my dives in SE FL solo. No better way to control your dive than going by yourself. I would suggest that if you really want to control you own dive under benign conditions, that you dive independently with your buddy or by yourself. You can try to adjust the pace of your group by discussing beforehand, but that may or may not be effective. It's a bit much to think that your wishes will granted on any particular dive.

Hi scubadada,

Wow, we are arguing and not disagreeing at all. Everything I have posted is consistent with your last message.

Now, we should discuss why we are here. There has got to be something deeper here.

Full disclosure: I rarely get what I want in life. I am always compromising for the greater good. Shared experiences require compromises. Ask, discuss, compromise.

markm

 

[markmud]

Oh, come on Pete, the majority of divers on a trip like this are not self sufficient or independent. It they were, they would not be complaining about the pace the DM takes

Ok, I get it now.
m

 

[TMHeimer]

I kind of agree with all 3 of you. Then again I already said my piece about groups. I'm not crazy about topside group tours/outings either (most of the time) . Just a little off topic, but I would be the last one to sign up for those heavily advertised group dive trips shops like to promote. And I pretty much got along great with most of the staff.

 

[dianna912]

Ok, I get it now.
m

Ouch. I’m self sufficient and independent, I just wasn’t confident enough in diving etiquette to know how to respond in this situation. Since more than half of our dives have been just us (and almost all of our logged dives over 100) I’ve rarely been in this position. This was our first liveaboard, so I’ve never been in the position of having the same DM for a week.

 

[Saniflush]

When I first started diving I was always perplexed how it seemed that everyone else would see more macro things than I would. During the surface interval between two dives, I made a comment alluding to this within earshot of another diver who always saw all of the cool macro stuff. He told me nicely but in no uncertain terms that "I dove too fast". When I pressed him a little on it he told me something that I have tried to practice ever since and it has served me well. "Dive half as fast, see twice as much."
It sounds like you are already on to that program so like many other have said on the thread just find your own work around by having a buddy who likes to go slow as well.

 

[Kharon]

Ouch. I’m self sufficient and independent, I just wasn’t confident enough in diving etiquette to know how to respond in this situation. Since more than half of our dives have been just us (and almost all of our logged dives over 100) I’ve rarely been in this position. This was our first liveaboard, so I’ve never been in the position of having the same DM for a week.

Had the same DM for 2 weeks on Roatan. Before first dive I explained that; 1, I had a SDI solo card and was equipped and had the skill set to dive solo, 2, I was not going into enclosed places (Calvin's Crack), 3, I would stay close to the group but at a more modest depth. Screw etiquette! I'm spending big bucks for very short times underwater. I'm paying them. I'll dive my dive.

One reason Bonaire has been my favorite is the freedom to dive any way you want. Now that I'm finding Bon too strenuous for me I will have to search for places that will allow me the freedom to dive as I wish. So far that hasn't been a problem. For example, on GC it was no problem to not penetrate the Kittywake (someone tried to drown me when I was younger and I ain't going anywhere I can't immediatly surface). DM said - "just meet us at our exit place in about an hour". On the second dive the DM offered to accompany me and was fine with my wanting to wander alone. NOTE: I was fully solo equipped.

I'm headed for Placencia in mid April. I fully expect to dive with a group, as the DM defines the dive, fast/slow/stopped - it doesn't matter. I'm hoping to dive with whale sharks and whatever I am expected to do I will comply. I have no expectation to dive solo.

My only concern is that I will live up to standards - I never assume that my skills are good enough. Every dive I do, I test what I am able to accomplish. Weighting & trim are paramount. I compare myself to the trumpetfish. As long as I can hover vertically head down, head up, horizontally facing down and facing up I figure that I can accomplish what I need to on any dive.