Zeagle Express Tech configuration

[cmrangel]

Hi all,
I am looking to move from my current BCD to a Zeagle Express Tech and could use some advice/thoughts. I just don't like all that BCD wrapped around me and think a simpler rig would be better and I could also travel with it to warm water locations which I hope to do within the next year. I also like the pull dump and bottom dump valves and the ability to use a hose to rinse the bladder.

I have looked at some BP/Ws but keep coming back to the ET. I know I could drop some weight by using a SS backplate but it would cost more $$ and I kind of like having the lighter backplate for travel and then making up for it with trim weights on the tank band.

Some background.
Fairly new diver, AOW with about 35 dives.

Usually dive in So Cal cold water with the following config:
Henderson 7mm aqua lock wetsuit w/Hood, boots, gloves
Oceanic probe HLC BCD
usually rent a X7-100 tank (HP100)
Need about 28lbs of weight (I am about 225 lbs, yes I need to lose) with the HP100 tank


I have tested my current weighting and I am floating at eye level with 500psi and the above rig so I think it is pretty well balanced. If I look at my current weighting (using rules of thumb in the wing calculator in this forum) I see Weights (-28lbs) + 500psi HP100 tank (-3.5 lbs) + Wet suit (22lbs) = 9.5 lbs. I used 3 lbs per mm rule of thumb for the wetsuit and added 1 lbs because I think the henderson is a bit floaty.

This 9.5 lbs is mostly shared between my current BCD, other items, and my "Personal buoyancy" :shocked2:. I will call this "the rest". I cannot find any information about the inherent buoyant of the Oceanic probe HLC and have not tested it.


Zeagle ET setup
I am looking at the ET with the rip cord weights and some tank band trim pockets (XS scuba or similar - recommendations welcome).
From looking at the wing lift calculator, I should be looking at the lift I need near the start of a dive at depth and to float my rig. At depth (100fsw), I would have Weights (-28lbs), Tank (-10lbs), compressed wetsuit (5.5lbs) and the rest (9.5 lbs) = -23 lbs. So, I need at least 23 lbs of lift in this case.

To float my rig by itself, I would need to float the weights (28 lbs, weight integrated) and the tank (10 lbs) plus regs, etc so I put this at about 40 lbs.

Questions: Does this make sense? I see the Zeagle has a 44lbs lift bladder, seems like this would be the choice. The 24 clearly will not cut it. The 34 lbs lift would work for situation at depth but would not float the rig with weights in it. I have never had to float my rig this way but it seems like it could come in handy. Any downside to using the 44 over the 34?

I am also looking at ditchable weight. From the "at depth with nearly full tank" scenario, I would need to ditch about 23 lbs to start accent if the wing fails. Clearly I would pop like a cork when I reached the surface but that would be better than drowning at depth. I think I could make up at least 3 lbs of that by swimming up and breath control so I looks like I need to be able to ditch about 20 lbs. I would then plan on about 8 lbs in the tank band trim pockets. When I get the rig, I would clearly need to adjust and hopefully reduce some weight that is now used to sink my current Oceanic BCD

Question: Does my perspective/calculation of ditchable weight make sense?

For options and such, I plan on the plastic tri-glides for keeping the shoulder straps from over-tightening and having the rig ride up. Also looking at the 1.5 in wide crotch strap from Dive Rite, a pouch for my flashlight and a utility pouch for my SMB, etc. Will likely mount my trilobite and BDD knife to straps and possibly put one of them in the utility pouch. Brand Recommendations & thoughts for these options are welcome.

Any thoughts on a shop that would swap out the bladder and sell this non-standard configuration (I don't think the 44lbs bladder is a "standard" order configuration) ?

It looks like the deluxe version is all that you can order now so I guess I will play with the shoulder pads, back pad, and chest strap to see what works for me. Likely may end up not using any of them with a 7mm wetsuit but maybe they will be a bit more comfortable when I go on warm water travel and have less/no wetsuit.

Any other advice on this setup would be welcome!!
Thanks

 

[runsongas]

you may be able to drop a few pounds switching from the probe if you use a basic webbing harness. at a minimum, you should split the weight so that some is on you on a weight belt. you wouldn't have an issue floating the rig on its own then.

the larger wing is available as an option from a zeagle dealer, but it usually isn't that cheap of an upgrade. by the time you add on the larger wing, you probably would be in the ballpark of a DSS rig with a ss plate. if spending about 500 is out of your budget, then wait a bit or buy a used bpw imo.

 

[diversteve]

I can't help with the weight calculation because that stuff makes my head hurt but the reasons to buy one you posted in your first two paragraphs seem sound. It's my reason to eventually get one also but just for warm water travel.

It's not all that obvious from the Zeagle website but I'm reliably certain the ET Deluxe comes with the Zeagle rear weight pockets already installed. It's listed on in the little icons on the page so that generally means included. You will have to pay for the Ripcord option.

Maybe call Scubatoys to configure it - they mention upgrading the bladder on their website. Zeagle Express Tech BCD discounts on sale Zeagle Another option is Zeagle Express - located near the Zeagle factory.

Prime lists the original pad-less ET for $269. IDK if they can change-out the bladder. Zeagle Express Tech Scuba BCD at PrimeScuba That may be an old listing though - a couple years ago they were hard to find after the Deluxe was introduced.

 

[AdivingBel]

Prime lists the original pad-less ET for $269. IDK if they can change-out the bladder. Zeagle Express Tech Scuba BCD at PrimeScuba That may be an old listing though - a couple years ago they were hard to find after the Deluxe was introduced.

I got mine from Prime via Amazon (looks like it's still a valid listing http://www.amazon.com/Zeagle-Express-Ultimate-Travel-Diving/dp/B0033IFC4K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442483131&sr=8-1&keywords=zeagle+express+tech) a couple of years ago and at that time they shipped the deluxe harness for the price of the basic. I re-rigged it as a basic because that is what I wanted. Not sure if they still ship it that way, but it was a good price if you did want to try the deluxe. YMMV

 

[Dannybot]

I just got a deluxe model from Scuba.com. It did not come with any weight pockets.

i got a 'like new' demo, it was truely like new, just no box, but it took almost a month for delivery.

 

[Colliam7]

The ET is a soft backplate, which is nice. As configured, it comes with a 'deluxe' harness, which is subject to personal appeal (I don't particularly care for them, although I have a couple on different rigs that I bought used on eBay; some people like them). One drawback, considering your comment about your preference for bottom dump valves, is that the wings which are shipped with it - 24, 34 or 44lb - are horseshoe, not donut wings. While not a huge issue, horseshoe bladders do have a tendency to trap air on one side or the other, and some divers have come to prefer 360 / donut wings. Something to think about,

I have looked at some BP/Ws but keep coming back to the ET. I know I could drop some weight by using a SS backplate but it would cost more $$ and I kind of like having the lighter backplate for travel and then making up for it with trim weights on the tank band.

How did you figure the costs of each approach to come up with the conclusion that the SS plate approach would costs more $$$? Just curious.

It looks like the deluxe version is all that you can order now so I guess I will play with the shoulder pads, back pad, and chest strap to see what works for me.

Although the picture on the Zeagle website shows the 'deluxe' edition with padding, the site also indicates that you can buy an ET without the padding (and without a weight system) for ~$350. Given your self-description of your weight requirements, you certainly don't need more padding to increase your weight requirements. And, even if you only wear a rash guard for that warm water travel diving, the padding will be completely superfluous. I just spent a week in Bonaire, where the water was a consistent 82.4 degrees for most of the week, although it did drop to a frigid 81.5 degrees on the last two days. I wore a 1mm full suit the whole time, was never too warm in the water, and actually got a little cold toward the end of a couple of dives at the end of the week. Moreover, I also traveled with, and used, an unpadded SS backplate and had no trouble getting my gear (and clothes) in one check bag that is under the weight limit.

Any other advice on this setup would be welcome!!

The ET backplate can be purchased by itself, and rigged with a simple one-piece web harness (I would suggest SS D-rings and a SS buckle). You can add a Zeagle 30 lb donut wing if you want to stay in the brand line, and you can get a couple of trim pockets for the top cam band, a couple of ditch-able weight pockets for the waist strap, and come in for very close to the money you would invest in a ET Deluxe with a ripcord weight system, and have a more functional rig.

My more 'directed' advice: honestly, you should revisit the 'hard' backplate, a SS plate. You have already decided on a backplate, so that isn't the issue. Rather, by your own description, you are looking for a rig that you will use primarily for your local diving, and maybe occasionally for warm water travel diving which you 'hope' to do. You are primarily diving in colder water, which requires thick exposure protection (7mm), and even with a steel cylinder you require A LOT of weight - 28 lbs. Don't beat yourself up about your personal weight, and buoyancy characteristics. Instead, address them with an appropriate rig. I have an adequate supply of bioprene myself - in that 1mm suit, with a SS BP, I still use 4 lbs of lead in salt water. But, I ONLY use 4 lbs, and can get away with 2. The SS BP not only reduces my added weight requirements, it also moves me away from the inherent positive buoyancy of virtually any fabric BCD (which you are seeing in your current configuration). And, the plate puts the weight where it should be for better trim - adjacent to my physiologic center of lift (lungs / thorax), not lower on my waist. Just something to think about. I don't know about you, but I really don't like wearing lead. At one point, when I was diving a Zeagle Ranger (a nice, rugged, padded, FLOATY BCD) with a drysuit and a steel cylinder, I need about 28 lbs as well. Arrggh! Glad I don't do that anymore.

There is nothing 'wrong' with the ET. If you said that you currently needed only 4 lbs of weight with a 7mm suit and a steel cylinder (and there are probably some people who can do that), the ET might be just the ticket for you. But, your case is, according to your own description, different.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Several years ago I got an Express Tech Deluxe with ripcord weight pouches. I soon decided the shoulder padding was pointless and removed it. Then I decided the back pad was pointless and removed it. (What's left is just a fairly floppy plastic back "plate.") At some point I decided I didn't want the weight pouches and preferred a traditional weight belt, so I removed them. After that I just bought a standard metal backplate and wing setup. I almost never use the Express Tech anymore.

I admired the Express Tech for its light weight--I took it traveling with me in a backpack across multiple countries in Asia--but other than for extreme travel like that, I just cannot see a benefit over a standard BP/W.

 

[cmrangel]

OP here, thanks for all the replies.
Thanks for the links and recommendations for suppliers!!

In response to Colliam7 and Lorenzoid
I think it is a good point about looking more at the BP/W. I need to look for some exact things I would like and add up the costs. For example, I want a pull dump over one shoulder (not in the middle) and some lower dump valves with enough lift for me. I am not sure which bladder would fit that bill or what it would cost. Likewise for the integrated weights.

I guess my impression of the pricing for BP/W came from just adding up the parts and looking at DSS and Zeagle. For a single tank rig, stainless steel large plate, harness and bladder at DSS, it comes to $470 which is $120 more than the ET (not including integrated weight system)


If I just look at all Zeagle BP/W components, I think the cost of a similarly configured SS backplate and the same 44 lbs bladder I was looking at, would be about $675 (Harness, Bladder, weight system) compared to the ET which I am hoping would be about $460 ($350 for the ET and $110 for the weight system). I have not looked at the prices of exactly which BP, harness, or wing I would get but these are the prices I used to conclude that the ET would be much cheaper.

On the positive side, the BP/W setup would allow me to move 5 to 6 lbs off my weight integrated system. So I would need to distribute 22 or 23 lbs between trim and weight pockets instead of 28. To me, this did not seem worth the $$.

Having said that, maybe there are BP/W components that have the things I am looking for (pull dump and lower dump, integrated weight system) that I just don't know about so any recommendations would be welcome!!

Thanks

Also, any comments on my approach to calculating lift and ditchable weights would be great, even if it is just to confirm that I am basically pointed in the right direction (or not!) would help confirm what I should be looking for.

---------- Post added September 17th, 2015 at 06:21 PM ----------

BTW, in the above $ calculations, I did not factor in the cost of the larger wing to the ET system. I did see a shop that offered it configured with the 35lbs wing for a $50 premium. So, if I assume a $75 premium, the difference to the DSS wing does drop to $50 or so. But .. this was using the DSS wings that don't have what I am looking for (shoulder side pull dump). But, it gives me hope that with the right bladder, I might get close.

 

[ams511]

You can add this to a wing if you want a shoulder dump.

---------- Post added September 17th, 2015 at 08:55 PM ----------

You can get a BP and wing from Dive Gear Express for about $300. You may want to consider splitting your weight between your BC and belt and use a lower capacity wing. A 44 lb wing is too large for tropical diving. I am not a big fan of the Zeagle wings you are mentioning. They use a non-standard way of mounting the wing to a plate, so you just can't buy any old plate to mount the wing, if you decide you want a hard plate.

 

[Colliam7]

I need to look for some exact things I would like and add up the costs. For example, I want a pull dump over one shoulder (not in the middle) and some lower dump valves with enough lift for me. I am not sure which bladder would fit that bill or what it would cost. Likewise for the integrated weights.

Good for you. Take some time to decide what you want, ask others about what they like / dislike, and you will have a better chance of ending up with something that works for YOU.

On the positive side, the BP/W setup would allow me to move 5 to 6 lbs off my weight integrated system. So I would need to distribute 22 or 23 lbs between trim and weight pockets instead of 28.

Keep in mind - your net 'gain', i.e. weight moved off your waist, will be more than just the weight of the SS BP. I do not know what BCD you are currently using, although your description suggests a jacket. Most fabric BCDs are inherently 'floaty', so your 28 lbs of lead probably includes ~ 4 lbs (maybe, a bit more) just to offset the positive buoyancy of the BCD itself. Lose that BCD, and you gain not only the weight of the SS BP but the penalty you have been paying for the buoyant BCD.

Having said that, maybe there are BP/W components that have the things I am looking for (pull dump and lower dump, integrated weight system) that I just don't know about so any recommendations would be welcome!!

What seems to be absent in your posts and comments is any reference to getting help from a local LDS. And, it may be that you don't have one, or don't have confidence in one sufficient to trust their advice - not an uncommon situation. But, what you will probably benefit from is a sustained 'real time' discussion with knowledgeable people. So, three things you might consider doing: 1. You are in CA, so why not just call DSS and speak with Tobin (the owner) - very knowledgeable, and will give 'no bull****' answers to questions, etc.; 2. send a PM to Jim Lapenta here on SB, and start an email dialog with him. He has quite a bit of experience working with people in your situation; 3, Call DRIS (Buy Scuba Dive Gear & Accessories Online | Discount Scuba Gear Store | Dive Right In Scuba | www.diverightinscuba.com - Dive Right in Scuba) and speak with them. I haven't used them myself, but there are a number of people I know who have, and are very positive about the quality and competence of information and assistance they received from DRIS.

BTW, in the above $ calculations, I did not factor in the cost of the larger wing to the ET system. I did see a shop that offered it configured with the 35lbs wing for a $50 premium. So, if I assume a $75 premium, the difference to the DSS wing does drop to $50 or so.

Even if you end up pursuing the ET, do NOT pay a premium for a shop to get the wing you want! Now, a bigger bladder may have a higher MSRP. That isn't a premium, just a reflection of manufacturing cost. But, don't pay a shop for effort they invest in actually calling Zeagle to arrange for what you want.

But .. this was using the DSS wings that don't have what I am looking for (shoulder side pull dump). But, it gives me hope that with the right bladder, I might get close.

Out of curiosity, since you have mentioned it several times, what is the basis of your affinity for a shoulder 'side pull' dump, versus a center dump? There are plenty of wings out there which do NOT have a center dump - the Zeagle 30lb donut wing for example (http://www.zeagle.com/products-repository/bcds/products/30lb-donut-bladder-assembly). Now, given your diving conditions (cold water, thick exposure suit) a 30lb wing may not be optimal for you, so this is just an example. But, there are plenty of good wings out there with a shoulder dump.