I like to be prepaired when diving and it got me thinking that when me and my dive buddy do some deep dive that it would be a good idea to sling a AL80 with a first stage to be a bailout/stage/never use except for emergencies. i was looking at the diverite stage tank kit to clip to my stiletto. any ideas? will the stiletto lift two tanks?
Zeagle stiletto stage/bailout AL80
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dkktsunami
Contributor
I would look into a much smaller bottle to serve as a pony (emergency use only) for recreational diving.
Lets just clarify. How deep do you define a "Deep dive"?
I think slinging an Al 80 is too cumbersome. For a diver with under 24 dives I think it may be too gear intensive too early on in your diving career. Adding a slung pony adds new diving techniques that must be learned in order to use the pony safely and effectively. Should you need to use it in a jam you'll have to rely on your training to avoid fumbling with it.
So if you decide to sling a pony, get mentor or an instructor and train with it in shallow waters.
IMHO though, if I had to choose between
- planning on how to prevent a problem
VS
- how to solve a problem
===>I would first choose on how to prevent the problem from ever occuring.
Since you have a constant buddy for this endeavor I would advise the both of you to brush up on your dive planning and air management planning skills. If you plan ahead you can prevent the problem of an OOA situation, dive conservative, and mitigate the risks enough to allow you to dive comfortably without a slung pony.
It is a personal choice though so on to your question.
Now assuming you're correctly weighted, your Stiletto should be able to lift an extra tank.
A Luxfer Al80 is -1.7lbs full and +4.2 lbs empty.
A Luxefer Al 80N (neutral) is -6.0lbs full and -0.2lbs empty
I would weight myself in the event that I use both tanks during my dive:
So with a slung Al 80 you'll need to add an extra 4-5lbs to your weightbelt. With a Al80N you won't need to change your weight.
Add up the +'s and -'s bouyancy characteristics of your weightbelt, wetsuit, full tanks and BC and you'll be able to tell if your BC can carry the load on the surface.
Take into the account of wetsuit compression (ie loss of buoyancy at depth) and you'll have the answer if your BC can get you neutral at depth.
I think slinging an Al 80 is too cumbersome. For a diver with under 24 dives I think it may be too gear intensive too early on in your diving career. Adding a slung pony adds new diving techniques that must be learned in order to use the pony safely and effectively. Should you need to use it in a jam you'll have to rely on your training to avoid fumbling with it.
So if you decide to sling a pony, get mentor or an instructor and train with it in shallow waters.
IMHO though, if I had to choose between
- planning on how to prevent a problem
VS
- how to solve a problem
===>I would first choose on how to prevent the problem from ever occuring.
Since you have a constant buddy for this endeavor I would advise the both of you to brush up on your dive planning and air management planning skills. If you plan ahead you can prevent the problem of an OOA situation, dive conservative, and mitigate the risks enough to allow you to dive comfortably without a slung pony.
It is a personal choice though so on to your question.
Now assuming you're correctly weighted, your Stiletto should be able to lift an extra tank.
A Luxfer Al80 is -1.7lbs full and +4.2 lbs empty.
A Luxefer Al 80N (neutral) is -6.0lbs full and -0.2lbs empty
I would weight myself in the event that I use both tanks during my dive:
So with a slung Al 80 you'll need to add an extra 4-5lbs to your weightbelt. With a Al80N you won't need to change your weight.
Add up the +'s and -'s bouyancy characteristics of your weightbelt, wetsuit, full tanks and BC and you'll be able to tell if your BC can carry the load on the surface.
Take into the account of wetsuit compression (ie loss of buoyancy at depth) and you'll have the answer if your BC can get you neutral at depth.
ok thank you! i wouldnt call myself the best diver in the world but instructors have said im really good with bouyancy and other skills. and by deep i mean 100+. and ya i plan on doing shallower dives first with just a tank there to get used to how it feels and then take it with me. and me and my buddy are very cautious when it comes to air managment but were always thinking about the what-ifs. and i always look for new things to try when diving even if its just a new kick or something im always trying something different. hopefully that doesnt sound to bad? lol
Good that you're thinking.
In planning for 100+ ft I think you should do many more shallower dives and get a very strong mentor, one who would train you as if you were taking an agency class. Or better yet take a class to train you for conditions you would meet at that depth.
Gradually work your way up to the depth of 100+ ft. And make several dives at each new max depth. I would advise making the deeper dives with a diver whose experienced at that depth.
With 100ft dives on 1 Al 80 I would definitely start thinking of the application of a pony. 80 cuft doesn't give you much bottom time, let alone enough reserve air should a problem arise.
You could also look into renting a larger capacity tank.
In planning for 100+ ft I think you should do many more shallower dives and get a very strong mentor, one who would train you as if you were taking an agency class. Or better yet take a class to train you for conditions you would meet at that depth.
Gradually work your way up to the depth of 100+ ft. And make several dives at each new max depth. I would advise making the deeper dives with a diver whose experienced at that depth.
With 100ft dives on 1 Al 80 I would definitely start thinking of the application of a pony. 80 cuft doesn't give you much bottom time, let alone enough reserve air should a problem arise.
You could also look into renting a larger capacity tank.
Without seeing you or your buddy dive, I can't really give any strong advice as to whether you should go for gold or not. In any event only you as the diver can make that choice, given your experiences.
I myself have only made 14 dives below 80ft, but I've only maxed out at 90ft so far.
I don't like to look at cards or specialties as a way of saying who's qualified and who's not. It's one thing to pass agency standards but it's another thing to excel at it. IMHO I think it's pretty easy to pass the minimal recreational agency standards.
If you're going to dive with a pony you should practice with it in a controlled shallow setting. Become familiar and competent with it's use both in a calm setting and in a panic-aggressive buddy setting.
For diving deep in general, I think you should be proficient in maintaining neutral buoyancy within 5ft (at minimum) with no references, a blue water hover so to speak. There may come a time during your deep dive when you'll have to make a blue water ascent with no anchor line or references other than your gauges. If s**t really hits the fan you may have to do a require deco stop in the blue, so this skill is really important.
Being able to shoot an SMB safely at depth will be a big plus and in a jam can act as your ascent line reference.
Other things to practice would be all your basic skills but in a hover. Be able to clear your mask, share air, ascend while sharing air, reg recovery, ditch and don gear, etc
- Being able to do all of those basic skills while maintaining your neutral buoyancy. The last thing you want to have happen is to clear your mask and then realize you dropped down/shot up 10 ft.
I think both you and your buddy should be comfortable and confident with these issues before attempting your deep dive.
I myself have only made 14 dives below 80ft, but I've only maxed out at 90ft so far.
I don't like to look at cards or specialties as a way of saying who's qualified and who's not. It's one thing to pass agency standards but it's another thing to excel at it. IMHO I think it's pretty easy to pass the minimal recreational agency standards.
If you're going to dive with a pony you should practice with it in a controlled shallow setting. Become familiar and competent with it's use both in a calm setting and in a panic-aggressive buddy setting.
For diving deep in general, I think you should be proficient in maintaining neutral buoyancy within 5ft (at minimum) with no references, a blue water hover so to speak. There may come a time during your deep dive when you'll have to make a blue water ascent with no anchor line or references other than your gauges. If s**t really hits the fan you may have to do a require deco stop in the blue, so this skill is really important.
Being able to shoot an SMB safely at depth will be a big plus and in a jam can act as your ascent line reference.
Other things to practice would be all your basic skills but in a hover. Be able to clear your mask, share air, ascend while sharing air, reg recovery, ditch and don gear, etc
- Being able to do all of those basic skills while maintaining your neutral buoyancy. The last thing you want to have happen is to clear your mask and then realize you dropped down/shot up 10 ft.
I think both you and your buddy should be comfortable and confident with these issues before attempting your deep dive.
That's funny, I thought about an entirely different way. Of course the Stiletto can balance out the buoyancy characteristics of another AL80 underwater. That's a no-brainer.
What I thought the OP was worried about, because it's what would worry me, is can the Stiletto, Zeagle's lightest back-inflate BC, carry an AL80 clipped off to its D-rings. That's a question for Zeagle as they've certainly (hopefully) tested the carrying capacity of the rig. You don't want to be exiting the water and have the AL80 break off and crash on your foot. Personally, I've never clipped off anything more than a small pony to my Stiletto. I've already had a couple tears in it: the little velcro thing that straps over the inflator hose and the stitching at the bottom holding in the back padding, so I'm not 100% confident in its durability. Hanging a heavy AL80 and first stage combo from two D-rings (with most of the weight bearing off the top one) is different than securing it with the two wide tank straps on the back that are designed to hold heavy tanks.
Good luck!
That's something I didn't think about.
If you have your stage straps set right, both the Shoulder and waist D-ring will hold the weight of the tank evenly.
On entry and exit I would definitely keep my arm over the tank to keep it from swinging though.
I'm pretty confident the Stiletto can hold the weight of the tank on 2 D-rings though. But you never know until you try.
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