Zero to hero - top schools?

[Thalassamania]

You can "meet standards" and still not have the experience to be a decent instructor (or diver). It happens all the time. Remember, in the PADI system, all you have to do is "meet minimal standards" and they must certify you.

If that makes you happier, so be it.

The problem is your use of the word minimum as a modifier for standard. In that context, it is meaningless. I know you disagree that it actually turns out this way, but when the term standard is applied to education, then the bad do not pass the standard. Can you think of another single modifier you could put in its place that would change the meaning?

Here is a classic example from semantics instruction:

Green army advances 10 miles.
Green army stopped cold.​

Both statements can be true, but they imply two different things. It is a classic method used in propaganda to influence an audience.

Here are two ways of saying the same thing about PADI:

PADI has established standards, and students must demonstrate mastery of every one in order to be certified.
In PADI, students will be certified if they meet minimum standards.
​

Both statements mean the same thing, but they sure don't sound the same.

How can you, with a seemingly straight-face complain about "minimum" standards and yet use "mastery," a word that in the absence of a PADI Dictionary completely twists the meaning of the sentence.

 

[tregrrr]

If Aquanauts had very high standards and PADI had very low standards, you'd expect their students to enjoy a high pass rate on the PADI exam at the same time that Aquanauts weeded out the sub-standard students, wouldn't you? Flunking students isn't the same as making sure they don't become instructors, but it's certainly a large step in that direction, I would think.

agreed

but the way i read it, it comes across as saying:"good schools will make sure that bad people dont become instructors" and out of the other corner he seems to say that everyone who applies for his magic program will become a PADI instructor...

I just found it odd and it seemed to me to be almost political in it's double speek

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

It's just scuba, 10 year olds can do it.

True - but they can't teach it! And that seems to be the topic at hand

I started diving at age 7 in the 60's. Dad told me to equalize my ears when necessary, don't hold your breath ascending, don't go up faster than your bubbles and don't dive deeper than you can swim up if the tank is empty. I am not the only SB member who successfully started under the age of 10 with no formal certification.

The line of commentary at that time was comparing scuba instruction to medical training of doctors. Lots of people on ScubaBoard seem to want the fact that they are scuba instructors to mean they are as important as NASA instructors.

​

 

[mddyver]

I started diving at age 7 in the 60's. Dad told me to equalize my ears when necessary, don't hold your breath ascending, don't go up faster than your bubbles and don't dive deeper than you can swim up if the tank is empty. I am not the only SB member who successfully started under the age of 10 with no formal certification.

The line of commentary at that time was comparing scuba instruction to medical training of doctors. Lots of people on ScubaBoard seem to want the fact that they are scuba instructors to mean they as important as NASA instructors.

​

Serious Hijack.

Really Great pic. My dad and I were probably watching Cousteau on the boob TV when that pic was taken. Wish we weren't land locked growing up. Dad had a love of the ocean that he transferred to me. Wife and I made sure his grandson learned to dive.

Mike

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Serious Hijack.

Really Great pic. My dad and I were probably watching Cousteau on the boob TV when that pic was taken. Wish we weren't land locked growing up. Dad had a love of the ocean that he transferred to me. Wife and I made sure his grandson learned to dive.

Mike

Continuing Hijack.

That body of water is Flathead Lake in Western Montana, so for some of us the land locked factor was not a factor.

 

[boulderjohn]

If that makes you happier, so be it.

How can you, with a seemingly straight-face complain about "minimum" standards and yet use "mastery," a word that in the absence of a PADI Dictionary completely twists the meaning of the sentence.

Sorry I did not respond. For some reason SB did not indicate to me that there had been any further activity in this thread, so I assumed I had closed it out.

What you are saying is not consistent with the word "standard" as is used in education. A standard is a standard. There is one defined level of reaching it. That becomes the minimum level of achievement no matter where you set the bar. If you made the standard so difficult that only 1 student in 1000 could pass it, that would still be the minimum for achieving that standard. Thus, the use of the term minimum in relation to standard is a needless and meaningless redundancy. As a meaningless pejorative descriptor, its only purpose would be to inflame emotions and thus interfere with rational debate.

On the other hand, mastery is consistent with the idea of a standard, assuming that mastery is defined--as it is elsewhere in the standards.

In language, words often have multiple meanings, and its meaning in one context is inappropriate in another. That is why I referred to this as a semantic argument. It is in many ways reminiscent of Alice's conversation with Humpty Dumpty:

There's glory for you!'

`I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

`But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master -- that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. `They've a temper, some of them -- particularly verbs: they're the proudest -- adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs -- however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'

`Would you tell me please,' said Alice, `what that means?'

`Now you talk like a reasonable child,' said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. `I meant by "impenetrability" that we've had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you'd mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don't mean to stop here all the rest of your life.'

`That's a great deal to make one word mean,' Alice said in a thoughtful tone.

`When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, `I always pay it extra.'

`Oh!' said Alice. She was too much puzzled to make any other remark.

`Ah, you should see 'em come round me of a Saturday night,' Humpty Dumpty went on, wagging his head gravely from side to side, `for to get their wages, you know.'

 

[Thalassamania]

John, you're playing word games, which can be amusing, but is still just a game, and, in this case, a substitute for serious content. Within your ivory tower of NCLB you are quite correct, but within the diving world everyone knows what we're talking about and you're just adding pedantic smoke to the mix.

 

[Rhone Man]

Discussions in these threads are rarely very productive, but here's my 2 cents anyhow:

• you can conceivably become an excellent dive instructor in only 6 months (David Shaw became one of the best divers in the world in only 332 dives, although the 333rd didn't go well)
• on a "zero to hero" you probably won't - they are almost by definition in the business of rapidly churning out certifications for money rather than grooming quality instructors
• there are great instructor trainers out there, but they don't tend to do the "zero to hero" thing
• ultimately, no matter how good you are, or how good your instructor trainers are, time is usually the best teacher; no matter how fantastic the theoretical training is, sooner or later you will see **** in real life that they don't have a course for.

 

[azchipka]

I would not hire the product of a zero to hero school

I think this is a general standard of all dive shops. Your more likely to get an internship position following a zero to hero school then a paying job.

If your looking at just training your friends and friends of friends zero to hero is fine.

If your looking for a job contact your local dive shop let them know your plans and talk to them about doing an extended internship program to take you through the levels.

Earning a instructor rating in six months doesnt make you an instructor it makes you dangerous. Being an instructor comes with experiance which you can not possible gain in six months.

The simple question to ask yourself is if you where the person who was hiring a instructor what are you looking for and more then that if you put your wife or girl friend or your own child in a scuba class would you really want them with an instructor who had only been diving for six months?

 

[azchipka]

For those who insist on the Zero to Hero meathod of things I would suggest Key Largo Florida at:

Ocean Divers: Talk to Joe or Georgia
Rainbow Reef: Talk to Pam