Student brings BP/W to OW class.

[Blue Sparkle]

I had to show an instructor how it worked before he let a student use one, back when I was divermastering and helping every so often with classes.

He really threw a fit about the 7' hose and bungeed backup....

On the latter topic (and I'm not sure what hose configuration the OP's friend is using), after about 25 dives I switched to a longer-primary/bungied secondary reg setup. Not long after that a DM looked at my hoses somewhat askance, and made a comment along the lines of "Hmm, so you donate the primary? Well, ooookay, but just be sure to let others know so they are not caught off guard."

Fair enough, but.... how many people use "Air 2" type setups, and --- unless I'm way off on this -- don't they donate the primary? So it's not like it's just a few, supposedly "tech" weirdos.

I was just thinking about this anecdote as it came up in another thread.

Blue Sparkle

 

[Peter Guy]

I will confess to being totally befuddled by a couple of BCs bought (and brought) by a couple of students. I had no idea how to adjust them properly.

One was a Transpac (DUI Delta?) and I watched in amazement as the LDS owner pulled here, took apart there, restrung here, tightened there -- what took over an hour to get this to "fit" the student would have taken my 20 minutes (max) to fit her in a BP/W (in fact, I had fitted her in one and it took about 5 minutes to adjust).

There are so many different styles of BC that I really don't expect to know all of them nor would I cast aspersions on the professionalism of an instructor who hadn't seen or used one.

 

[Akimbo]

I’m not sure I understand this one. How is a BP/W functionally different than many of the back-inflate/back floatation BC? OK, except for some pockets, padding, and maybe a Velcro cummerbund. Most major manufactures offer them including Aqualung, Scubapro, and Oceanic.

 

[boulderjohn]

On the latter topic (and I'm not sure what hose configuration the OP's friend is using), after about 25 dives I switched to a longer-primary/bungied secondary reg setup. Not long after that a DM looked at my hoses somewhat askance, and made a comment along the lines of "Hmm, so you donate the primary? Well, ooookay, but just be sure to let others know so they are not caught off guard."

One should always go over air sharing techniques, especially if yours is out of the ordinary. I always explain how I donate and will usually do at least one practice if the opportunity is there.

I’m not sure I understand this one. How is a BP/W functionally different than many of the back-inflate/back flotation BC? OK, except for some pockets, padding, and maybe a Velcro cummerbund.

I think the difference that would throw instructors who are not familiar with it is the procedure for removing it and replacing it,m since it does not have the adjustable straps that can be loosened for easy, jacket-style removal and replacement.

 

[The Kraken]

I wish someone will explain to me how a BP/W differs from any other buoyancy compensating device other than in the structural composition.

Requirements of a BC:
1: Flotation bladder for accomplishing negative, positive and neutral buoyancy
2: A device for inflating or deflating aforementioned flotation bladder
3: Means of attachment to the body

Does not the BP/W supply those requirements?

the K

 

[Blue Sparkle]

One should always go over air sharing techniques, especially if yours is out of the ordinary. I always explain how I donate and will usually do at least one practice if the opportunity is there.

I typically dive with the same buddy, so I don't have to explain, but we do still complete air-sharing drills. The funny thing is the the one time I had an insta-buddy (which was the same boat trip on which the DM raised an eyebrow at my hoses), I sat down to do a buddy check/pre-dive with him before we jumped in, during which I explained to him how I would donate and/or he could grab my primary. When it was his turn he actually wasn't clear how to describe the process with his "Air 2" type setup (which, ironically, would have him donating his primary).

Anyway, I agree, always good to do a pre-dive and sort these things out, along with releases, plan, etc.

Blue Sparkle

 

[Akimbo]

… I think the difference that would throw instructors who are not familiar with it is the procedure for removing it and replacing it,m since it does not have the adjustable straps that can be loosened for easy, jacket-style removal and replacement.

If that is the basis for being denied use of a wing, it is a wonderful opportunity. You can say “thanks, but no thanks” to that instructor and locate someone competent. If someone can’t make the jump from back-inflate to wing or from a non-adjustable jacket BC to a BP/wing, then I wouldn’t want them teaching me to cross the street.

 

[TSandM]

I took my Rescue class in a backplate and Hog harness. It flummoxed my instructors, because they had no clue how to get somebody out of the gear (other than cut the harness, which is always an option). I could see an OW instructor being very nervous about a student in gear they felt they didn't know how to remove in an emergency. Backplate setups can be a little challenging with wetsuits and very heavy weight belts, too (as I know from annoying personal experience with students!).

I do have to say that, having participated in a number of OW classes over the year or so, I totally understand instructors who don't want to take on any even perceived increase in complexity or challenge in teaching OW. Teaching those classes can be a truly daunting thing, and you take on a huge responsibility for people. If someone doesn't feel he can do a safe job with students using a certain kind of gear, I think he'd be well within his rights to refuse to do it. If the student wants to use that equipment, he needs to go find an instructor who is comfortable with it.

 

[DevonDiver]

I do have to say that, having participated in a number of OW classes over the year or so, I totally understand instructors who don't want to take on any even perceived increase in complexity or challenge in teaching OW. Teaching those classes can be a truly daunting thing, and you take on a huge responsibility for people. If someone doesn't feel he can do a safe job with students using a certain kind of gear, I think he'd be well within his rights to refuse to do it. If the student wants to use that equipment, he needs to go find an instructor who is comfortable with it.

I will confess to being totally befuddled by a couple of BCs bought (and brought) by a couple of students. I had no idea how to adjust them properly....There are so many different styles of BC that I really don't expect to know all of them nor would I cast aspersions on the professionalism of an instructor who hadn't seen or used one.

I kind of agree...and disagree.

Firstly, if the instructor isn't familiar with a particular design, then it's acceptable for them to admit that. What I object to is the 'excuse making' used by some instructors/divers who just can't admit that the problem actually arises because aren't familiar, or don't know, how to utilise that kit.

Secondly, I expect a competent instructor to have a sound foundation of diving skills, problem solving and common sense. With those elements, the instructor should be able to work out the requirements and solutions to a particular item of equipment use. An appropriate breadth of diving experience should make transition between minor equipment design variations relatively seamless.

Thirdly, the option does exist for the instructor to self-educate in preparation for the course. If they learn that a student has their own equipment, and will be arriving for training in XYZ BCD, ABC regulators and DEF dive computer; they always have the option to do some pro-active research on the best use of that equipment.

I lost count of the times I've downloaded a manual for a dive computer, or other piece of kit, before teaching a student who uses it. The same applies for being involved in online forums, using Google or chatting with my dive instructor peers. A "dive pro" is supposed to have a good knowledge of their industry, new trends, equipment variations etc. The ones who don't are the sausage factory trained clones, who want to teach sausage factory courses.

 

[USVet96]

I agree TSand. I don't think it is necessarily that the instructor is not familiar with the BP/W setup and equipment, but more of an issue with the safety procedures of the equipment. There is a noticeable difference, and you point it out, between using the device and having to deal with the device in an emergency.

I'd say that the instructors are not familiar with the safety procedures of the BP/W.

And also to not make things too complicated for a beginning diver as well.

IMO