Naui master diver vs divemaster water skills?

[htiger]

.......snip.......
There shouldn't be ... DM is an actual course, MD is a vanity license plate.
...........snip...............

Really? My NAUI MD cert is just a vanity license plate?

Wow.

So should I throw it away? Ask for a refund? Hide it and just use the Y certs I have? Hide the NAUI rescue cert too, maybe?

Your singular comment is what prompted me to register for this forum and reply. I've taught a lot of stuff over the years--skydiving, hang gliding, etc., etc. I thoroughly enjoy helping students overcome fears and achieve skills and knowledge in challenging situations. Water sports always were very challenging to me. I worked hard to get the few credentials I have, the "vanity plates." I came across this board--and your comment--while searching for info on NAUI leadership courses as I thought those would be a next goal. If your looking-down-your-nose-at-your-own-students and their accomplishments is a product of NAUI leadership I am not interested.

Are you indeed a NAUI instructor/leader? If so, do you teach Master Diver courses? And if so, why (if it's nothing more than a "vanity plate")?

Most sincerely,

htiger

 

[Thalassamania]

Really? My NAUI MD cert is just a vanity license plate?

Wow.

So should I throw it away? Ask for a refund? Hide it and just use the Y certs I have? Hide the NAUI rescue cert too, maybe?

Your singular comment is what prompted me to register for this forum and reply. I've taught a lot of stuff over the years--skydiving, hang gliding, etc., etc. I thoroughly enjoy helping students overcome fears and achieve skills and knowledge in challenging situations. Water sports always were very challenging to me. I worked hard to get the few credentials I have, the "vanity plates." I came across this board--and your comment--while searching for info on NAUI leadership courses as I thought those would be a next goal. If your looking-down-your-nose-at-your-own-students and their accomplishments is a product of NAUI leadership I am not interested.

Are you indeed a NAUI instructor/leader? If so, do you teach Master Diver courses? And if so, why (if it's nothing more than a "vanity plate")?

Most sincerely,

htiger

Not just all that, but also the NAUI Lifetime member who designed and wrote the NAUI Master Diver Course and it's standards. Your quote is was in response to a question that shifted the immediate discussion from NAUI to PADI, to wit:

Originally Posted by divetatoo

I know even in the PADI system itself there is a lot of ego regarding the divemaster vs. master diver, but the training is different for obvious reasons.

 

[drrich2]

htiger:

Following up Thalassamania's reply, and having gone back to the prior page to see what post you were reacting to, I think there was an inadvertent misunderstanding.

I believe Thal. was referring to the PADI Master Diver cert., which is not a course but rather a certification you can apply for after completing OW, AOW, Rescue Diver & 5 Specialty courses (which I believe must be PADI specialty courses?). If you've done the per-requisites, and want to get a PADI Master Diver cert., you basically send them the money & they send you a card. Also, any 5 mainstream (not distinctive) specialties will do, so 'Boat Diver' counts.

NAUI's Master Diver program is an actual course with knowledge and skills that one need pass to get the Master Diver cert. I'm told it was intended to convey much of the knowledge & skill of an instructor, minus the teaching-related knowledge & skills instructors have.

If you want to read some debate over the value of PADI Master Diver cert.s, a search should turn up a couple (at least) of threads where it's been hotly debated.

Richard.

P.S.: I've got PADI OW, AOW, Rescue, Deep & Nitrox so far. If I get another 3 PADI specialties down, I want my vanity card!!! Just say'in...

 

[supergaijin]

An Oldie but a goodie!

It makes me laugh in these threads that other agencies are trying to define themselves against the 'standard' PADI course. SSI does the same. It's like a bunch of Emo kids all trying to be different together. The only agency that I have seen to be somewhat different in their formation and philosophy FFESSM and even that isn't that different.... until you get far down the progression and start simulating submarine escapes.

NAUI Instructors here are basing their argument on the fact that the NAUI Master Diver is a course. Noted. If you break it down, the progression goes OW course, AOW course and Master Diver course.

What they refuse to consider is that PADI's Master Diver rating comprises of OW course, AOW course, Rescue course and 5 Specialty courses, and requires a minimum of 50 logged dives.

Why that's just night and day! A revelation! If you want to be hardcore, take the NAUI course and then refuse to be certified like Axl Rose refused to be inducted in to the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. Fight the Machine!

By listening to some people posting here, all PADI divers are walked through training and spat out the end to sink or swim, and all NAUI divers come out ready to battle the Krakon! To be realistic, one needs to remember that beginner divers are just that; beginner divers. Quality instruction will create better beginner divers. All agencies allow quality instruction. Any instructor from any agency may opt for minimum standards in order to issue a certification.

After all that, I wish PADI's Master Diver required more advanced theory using for example the Encyclopedia of Diving.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Ive looked on the NAUI website and wasn't able to find it...but for all the instructors here: What are the water skills requirements for master diver vs divemaster? I'm in a master diver class and have heard from other students that our instructor is testing us to the divemaster standards...and adding a few of his own. This is fine, but I would like to know what the actual requirements are for the cert I am working towards.

I've read all the replies to the op and none seem to answer the original question about the water skills. Instead it turned into a debate about which agency is better! I would like to know what the water requirement are also?

even after clarifying what he was asking

I don't know which agency has stricter standards but my instructor is going far above any stated. We (Master divers) are being trained with his divemaster class...these are some examples of the waterskills he is requiring of us:

Tread water for 20 min (feet and arms tied behind back)
Swim 500y in 10 min (no rescue stroke)
Swim 25y underwater (one breath)
Swim 50 y underwater (three breaths)
Skin diver ditch/don (15ft)*
Push 10lb brick 50y underwater (15ft)*
Clear mask 5+ times underwater on one breath*
Hold breath for 90sec (immediately after 500y swim)
Retrieve four screws placed in each corner of the dive well on one breath (dimensions 25x15x5yards)*
Snorkle 900 yards (forgot the time limit)*
Rescue tow 250y*

*= we are allowed mask/fins/snorkle, all others we are allowed NO equipment

Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of this is bad. It will make us all better swimmers, and some of them are easier than others...but damn, some of them are tough. How many of you guys could do the screw retrieval or the ditch/don?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't have my manual with me at the moment, but the short answer is that the NAUI Master Diver class is the in-water part of the Divemaster training. In other words ... the water skills are identical. The only difference is that DM training also includes a leadership component that the Master Diver course does not.

I don't have the time to go back and read the replies in this thread at the moment, but I'd be surprised if that hasn't already been said ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[supergaijin]

[h=5]NAUI Master Scuba Diver

Open water Dives[/h]A minimum of eight open water dives is required. A maximum of three dives per day shall be applied toward course requirements. No more than one skin dive may count toward the eight dive minimum.

Required Dives

• Emergency procedures and rescue
• Deep/simulated decompression diving
• Limited visibility or night diving
• Underwater navigation
• Search and recovery – light salvage

Elective Dives

• Skin diving
• Review of basic scuba skills
• Environmental study or survey
• Air consumption (practical application)
• Boat diving
• Shore diving
• Hunting and collecting
• Special interest

 

[Thalassamania]

An Oldie but a goodie!

It makes me laugh in these threads that other agencies are trying to define themselves against the 'standard' PADI course. SSI does the same. It's like a bunch of Emo kids all trying to be different together. The only agency that I have seen to be somewhat different in their formation and philosophy FFESSM and even that isn't that different.... until you get far down the progression and start simulating submarine escapes.

NAUI Instructors here are basing their argument on the fact that the NAUI Master Diver is a course. Noted. If you break it down, the progression goes OW course, AOW course and Master Diver course.

What they refuse to consider is that PADI's Master Diver rating comprises of OW course, AOW course, Rescue course and 5 Specialty courses, and requires a minimum of 50 logged dives.

Why that's just night and day! A revelation! If you want to be hardcore, take the NAUI course and then refuse to be certified like Axl Rose refused to be inducted in to the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. Fight the Machine!

By listening to some people posting here, all PADI divers are walked through training and spat out the end to sink or swim, and all NAUI divers come out ready to battle the Krakon! To be realistic, one needs to remember that beginner divers are just that; beginner divers. Quality instruction will create better beginner divers. All agencies allow quality instruction. Any instructor from any agency may opt for minimum standards in order to issue a certification.

After all that, I wish PADI's Master Diver required more advanced theory using for example the Encyclopedia of Diving.

I've read all the replies to the op and none seem to answer the original question about the water skills. Instead it turned into a debate about which agency is better! I would like to know what the water requirement are also?

even after clarifying what he was asking

I don't have my manual with me at the moment, but the short answer is that the NAUI Master Diver class is the in-water part of the Divemaster training. In other words ... the water skills are identical. The only difference is that DM training also includes a leadership component that the Master Diver course does not.

I don't have the time to go back and read the replies in this thread at the moment, but I'd be surprised if that hasn't already been said ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

NAUI Master Scuba Diver

Open water Dives

A minimum of eight open water dives is required. A maximum of three dives per day shall be applied toward course requirements. No more than one skin dive may count toward the eight dive minimum.

Required Dives

• Emergency procedures and rescue
• Deep/simulated decompression diving
• Limited visibility or night diving
• Underwater navigation
• Search and recovery – light salvage

Elective Dives

• Skin diving
• Review of basic scuba skills
• Environmental study or survey
• Air consumption (practical application)
• Boat diving
• Shore diving
• Hunting and collecting
• Special interest

The point that is being missed is the purpose of the class and level of the evaluation. The NAUI course is the water skills and general knowledge portion of the NAUI Divermaster and Instructor courses (that part is the same for both) and that is the expected level of performance.

 

[dpaustex]

Yep, SSI is the same on the Master Diver (it's a card, recognizing number of dives and specialty courses taken). SSI did not used to have a "Dive Master", but had a "Dive Control Specialist" (DiveCon). There is a recent change is the regs to split that up.

 

[klausi]

I did both, and I guess the advantage of NAUI is that it gives the instructor more liberties in designing the course. During my Master Diver course, I my instructor taught me lots of interesting extras, like following a line (in the open, not in a cave!). The DM included some swimming tests, and was more aimed at leading recreational divers. I came away quite impressed by NAUI's teaching standards.