Naui master diver vs divemaster water skills?

[Steve in Seattle]

(you'd be stupid to pay to go to Harvard if you can get into Cal)....

You're long on "facts" but rather short on knowledge ... that's a dangerous combination, one I try my best to avoid.

LMAO... you do realize that NO ONE pays to go to Harvard anymore right?
Average tuition? $31500. Average aid package? $34000. If you make under $200,000/yr, you get a FULL RIDE.

Have fun at Berkley and enjoy your "knowledge".


(Wow... I havn't seen a cut like that backfire so fast in years. This board is great entertainment. And for the record, no, I don't consider ditching a octopus a good idea regardless of training... narced, panicked, injured... swapping breaths is NOT ideal)

 

[Steve in Seattle]

Just to keep things honest here... Not saying one is better or not / but let's not misrepresent / because you make it sound a whole lot easier than it is...

NAUI Master Diver -
A minimum of eight open water dives is required.
Age - Minimum is 15 years.
Diver Certification - NAUI advanced certification or the equivalent is required. The instructor is to ensure adequate student knowledge and capability before any open water training and shall use skill or other evaluations to do so.


Naui Dive Master has many more requirements

Age - Minimum is 18 years. Experience - Specified for each Leadership course. Required logged dives shall be varied in environment and depth.
Rescue Certification - At a minimum, Scuba Rescue Diver certification is required except for Skin Diving Instructor, for which a lifeguarding certification is adequate.
CPR & First Aid Certification - Current certification or verified competency in CPR and First Aid is required for registration. Certification training shall include one person adult CPR, infant/child CPR, two person CPR and the use of rescue breathing barrier devices, e.g. pocket maskŽ®, face shield.
Medical Approval -
Administrative Requirements -
Diver Certification - The preferred minimum certification level is NAUI Assistant Instructor. Individuals not possessing the preferred certification may be accepted for training only if they meet the following criteria:
Certification - Certification as NAUI Master Scuba Diver and NAUI Scuba Rescue Diver or their equivalent. Divers with evidence of equivalent training and experience may be enrolled provided they pass the NAUI Master Scuba Diver written examination with a minimum score of 75%.
Experience - 60 logged open water dives.
Waterskills - Ability equivalent to that of a NAUI Assistant Instructor. Skills from the Assistant Instructor standards shall be evaluated if the candidate is not already certified as a NAUI Assistant Instructor

Yeah, that's pretty much proving my point... by Divemaster they're both about par (60 dives, CPR/First Aid, Rescue, etc...).

... but the PADI Master Diver's 50 dive requirement ensures some level of experience that simply isn't there with the NAUI Master Diver course (unless its actually there as a pre-requisit and simply not mentioned on their summary page). I'm not saying the NAUI master divers are nessesarily less qualified with book knowledge and pool session or hands on demostrations, but logging some cert dives while concentrating on a course is less likely to turn up problems or less than ideal situations you may face in a fun dive with your buddies.

No, I'm still not convinced it's best to limit a student from advancing just becuase they haven't logged enough dives with less education (that seems a little rediculous), but that's why the PADI Master Diver card isn't a class with 50 dive prereqs... its a level of recognition for when you can completed enough specialty courses and experience to warrant such a rating. The NAUI's link of Master Diver to a course kind of puts them in a tough spot. Either a) require 45 dives before enrolling in the course to ensure they have 50 by completion (to be on par with PADI), or b) elliminate such a requirement and hand out cards to those who pass the tests and pool sessions then pull off their cert dives without issue.

By Dive Master it doesn't really matter... but to those who stop at Master Diver, at least for a while (until they log at least 50 dives) there is obviously a difference in practical experience.

 

[Casarez]

LMAO... you do realize that NO ONE pays to go to Harvard anymore right?
Average tuition? $31500. Average aid package? $34000. If you make under $200,000/yr, you get a FULL RIDE.

Got a link? Seriously my wife will be doing grad school and I would love a free ride for her. Keep in mind though that I make a good salary so we would not qualify for any low income grants. Just like anyone who had parents making decent money would not qualify. However I am under $200k so apparently I qualify for this.

 

[Thalassamania]

LMAO... you do realize that NO ONE pays to go to Harvard anymore right?
Average tuition? $31500. Average aid package? $34000. If you make under $200,000/yr, you get a FULL RIDE.

Have fun at Berkley and enjoy your "knowledge".

Hm ... I guess your income must be insufficient to have to worry about such things.

(Wow... I havn't seen a cut like that backfire so fast in years. This board is great entertainment. And for the record, no, I don't consider ditching a octopus a good idea regardless of training... narced, panicked, injured... swapping breaths is NOT ideal)

No one said it's a good idea, it's just one of many options that a proficient divers should be capable of.

 

[Steve in Seattle]

Got a link? Seriously my wife will be doing grad school and I would love a free ride for her. Keep in mind though that I make a good salary so we would not qualify for any low income grants. Just like anyone who had parents making decent money would not qualify. However I am under $200k so apparently I qualify for this.

No problem Top Universities Scramble to Keep up with Harvard’s Financial Aid Package

Harvard announces sweeping middle-income initiative — The Harvard University Gazette

It's my understanding Harvard's scholarship-only tuition is only for undergrads.

Most doctorate programs worth their time already pay a majority of the tuition, room, board, books, and materials due to the research involved. I imagine Harvard is no different in this respect. The exception may be "arts" doctorates, but even they publish and produce works for the unveristy.

Master's programs are usually left out of the free-education band wagon since they don't publish or do as much research for the university... MBAs and such usually pay out the nose for their degrees... no matter where they go.

 

[JDMerk]

Master's programs are usually left out of the free-education band wagon since they don't publish or do as much research for the university... MBAs and such usually pay out the nose for their degrees... no matter where they go.

Tell me about it...I'm in my second semester of an MBA program, its getting kinda pricey.

 

[Slonda828]

Wow - If this is for real, it sounds a bit extream. Was this guy an EX-SEAL? Hands and Feet tied? I can't imagine that either of the two oganizations in question here would approve of that. Just sounds unsafe for recreational diving.

Sounds like this guy is going beyond reasonable limits. And I happen to choose NAUI because of the the freedom that my instructor had to go beyond the book work. (And I'm a better diver for it.)

Anyone disagree that this seems a bit much?

It sounds unsafe? Not if that's what you are striving for. He's not going beyond limits if you are training to those standards. It's not a military course, so you actually have the option of declining to participate if it makes your butt pucker. It all depends on what you are willing to train yourself to do. It's definitely not unsafe unless you are are weak or unskilled. Driving a car is unsafe if you aren't trained or skilled. Jumping out of planes was extremely unsafe until somehow showed me how to do it without killing myself or other jumpers.

I understand that it may not be for you, but don't make the mistake of deriding it without participating in it. NAUI does allow its instructors to increase the standards, unlike some other agencies which we have to admit tell their instructors what they can and cannot teach. If it is out of your comfort zone, that's fine, but that doesn't mean that it is outside of everyone's.

 

[JDMerk]

Let me clear something up... When I actually performed the drown proofing we were NOT physically bound as was originally suggested. We were however required to hold our wrist behind our back and not move our legs independently...Essentially the same task, only we had a readily available bailout method. We were and have always been extermely well monitored in all of our pool activities and I have not felt edangered or at risk at any time. I have excellent instructors and applaude the level they hold us as students to. I know it will make me a better diver in the long run.

 

[Thalassamania]

So it's just (just?) a simulation of a standard skill that is used in the military.

 

[Mike Campbell]

Hey Thallasamania. I know YOU already probaby know this, but to clear it up for others...It is in fact a partial simulation of a military skill. I was kind of waiting for J to clear the thing up about the binding of the hands and feet since we do NOT do that....We teach a battery of intensive university courses. The instructors come from military and commercial diving backgrounds but also have graduate degrees in exercise science. We are demanding, but every consideration is given to safety. The particular skill of which this thread speaks was suggested by me in its bastardized form to increase lung capacity and comfort under task loading after I was asked for input.
The course is a product based in part on thirty years of semester long classes, and it happens to fulfill the requirements of NAUI's rather rigorous standards for these certifications hence the issuing of NAUI cards. The students are fulfilling the requirements of a curriculum course. We're proud of the courses and of the students who enter them.
Mike