Naui master diver vs divemaster water skills?

[Thalassamania]

The PADIphiles will never go for it ... its not a diving skill ... they don't have a regulator in their mouth.

 

[Slonda828]

The PADIphiles will never go for it ... its not a diving skill ... they don't have a regulator in their mouth.

Lots of people say that. We just did an open water class (NAUI) and we did the optional skin dive which I lead under supervision for my divemaster program. We had the students (using your methods of breath control that I practiced at length) skin dive for about a half an hour. Many of them were down on the 30 foot platform at the spring freaking out some other shop's open water course full of bicycling, arm flailing, non-swimmers by being down "that deep with just a damn snorkel" as they so succinctly put it. Then our class smoked the rest of the open water course, left before them, and we had a blast while we ate sushi. Swimmers and skin divers make better SCUBA divers, when are people going to learn that? I've even had some people express interest in taking further skin diving instruction. I think sometimes when a water activity does not involve expensive gear people automatically naysay it. People love surfing, SCUBA, and waterskis but decry swimming, skin diving, and snorkeling.

 

[Thalassamania]

Lots of people say that. We just did an open water class (NAUI) and we did the optional skin dive which I lead under supervision for my divemaster program. We had the students (using your methods of breath control that I practiced at length) skin dive for about a half an hour. Many of them were down on the 30 foot platform at the spring freaking out some other shop's open water course full of bicycling, arm flailing, non-swimmers by being down "that deep with just a damn snorkel" as they so succinctly put it. Then our class smoked the rest of the open water course, left before them, and we had a blast while we ate sushi. Swimmers and skin divers make better SCUBA divers, when are people going to learn that? I've even had some people express interest in taking further skin diving instruction. I think sometimes when a water activity does not involve expensive gear people automatically naysay it. People love surfing, SCUBA, and waterskis but decry swimming, skin diving, and snorkeling.

I love it, thanks.

 

[divetatoo]

I'm curious Slonda, why would breath hold divers make better scuba divers?

Do you think a NAUI diver who went through all of that training, but then rarely dives will be a more effective diver than a PADI diver who rarley dives?

It seems from reading these posts that NAUI divers have a ton of ego, which is the first thing that can get you killed. They MAY have better training, but it seems as though I'm getting a sense of over compensation here.

I know even in the PADI system itself there is a lot of ego regarding the divemaster vs. master diver, but the training is different for obvious reasons.

Does NAUI require liability insurance in there "beginning" professional ranks? Serious question because I don't know. In fact I know nothing of NAUI, other than the impressions I am getting from their ranks here on the scuba board.

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm curious Slonda, why would breath hold divers make better scuba divers?

Do you think a NAUI diver who went through all of that training, but then rarely dives will be a more effective diver than a PADI diver who rarley dives?

The agency, per se, is irrelevant ... except for the fact that the kind of training we are discussing is prohibited within the PADI structure. In my expereince a diver who is very well trained and does not dive constantly (that's most of the scientists that I've trained) will be more effective than someone less rigerously trained who dives more often. There are, of course, exceptions to all such generalizations.

It seems from reading these posts that NAUI divers have a ton of ego, which is the first thing that can get you killed. They MAY have better training, but it seems as though I'm getting a sense of over compensation here.

No, what gets you killed is over reaching what you are prepared to handle. Better and more complete training both equips you to handle a much broader range as well as better lets you cone to know your limits.

I know even in the PADI system itself there is a lot of ego regarding the divemaster vs. master diver, but the training is different for obvious reasons.

There shouldn't be ... DM is an actual course, MD is a vanity license plate.

Does NAUI require liability insurance in there "beginning" professional ranks? Serious question because I don't know. In fact I know nothing of NAUI, other than the impressions I am getting from their ranks here on the scuba board.

DMs (which are not beginners as in PADI) are insured as are AIs.

 

[divetatoo]

The agency, per se, is irrelevant ... except for the fact that the kind of training we are discussing is prohibited within the PADI structure. In my expereince a diver who is very well trained and does not dive constantly (that's most of the scientists that I've trained) will be more effective than someone less rigerously trained who dives more often. There are, of course, exceptions to all such generalizations.
No, what gets you killed is over reaching what you are prepared to handle. Better and more complete training both equips you to handle a much broader range as well as better lets you cone to know your limits.
There shouldn't be ... DM is an actual course, MD is a vanity license plate.
DMs (which are not beginners as in PADI) are insured as are AIs.

DM's are the beginning professional rank. I didn't say they were beginners. That is the first level in professional ranks in PADI. I don't care what kind of knife you have, if you don't keep is sharp, it is still a dull blade. Again, I have met divers that are better trained in real world scenarios that have kept up on there skills. You are obviously a die hard NAUI diver as you were involved in the very early stages as I understand. I will agree that it depends on the diver.

To this point also, that just because a person is a dive master(who rarely dives), it does not make them more competent as a diver who dives more, just because their training was harder.

 

[Thalassamania]

DM's are the beginning professional rank. I didn't say they were beginners. That is the first level in professional ranks in PADI. I don't care what kind of knife you have, if you don't keep is sharp, it is still a dull blade. Again, I have met divers that are better trained in real world scenarios that have kept up on there skills. You are obviously a die hard NAUI diver as you were involved in the very early stages as I understand. I will agree that it depends on the diver.

Actually, as far as I'm concerned a plague on all their houses. The only current advantage to NAUI is that I can still, within NAUI's standards, teach the 100 hour course with little or no modifcation. I would not describe myself as a supporter of NAUI's current policies or directions.

DM in NAUI is an alternate professional rank, exactly the same level of diver skill and knowledge is required as for an Instructor. The difference is that an Instructor receives additional training in dealing with people who learning to dive and a DM receives additiion training designed to better equip them to manage diving operations.

To this point also, that just because a person is a dive master(who rarely dives), it does not make them more competent as a diver who dives more, just because their training was harder.

There I would disagree. Part of the training we provide (because we teach scientists who will dive their butts off during a field season and then be back in the lab for a year or more) involves a series of exercises that they learn in class that also serve as an excellent way to "tune up" when they have to go back into the field. These divers, who may not have made a dive in a year or so, are right back at the top of thier game after two pool session and two OW dives, and the top of their game is way above most instructors that you've ever seen. You can reach a level of performance where it is like riding a bicycle, you never forget how, you just need a small amount of definable practice to get back on.

 

[divetatoo]

Actually, as far as I'm concerned a plague on all their houses. The only current advantage to NAUI is that I can still, within NAUI's standards, teach the 100 hour course with little or no modifcation. I would not describe myself as a supporter of NAUI's current policies or directions.

DM in NAUI is an alternate professional rank, exactly the same level of diver skill and knowledge is required as for an Instructor. The difference is that an Instructor receives additional training in dealing with people who learning to dive and a DM receives additiion training designed to better equip them to manage diving operations.
There I would disagree. Part of the training we provide (because we teach scientists who will dive their butts off during a field season and then be back in the lab for a year or more) involves a series of exercises that they learn in class that also serve as an excellent way to "tune up" when they have to go back into the field. These divers, who may not have made a dive in a year or so, are right back at the top of thier game after two pool session and two OW dives, and the top of their game is way above most instructors that you've ever seen. You can reach a level of performance where it is like riding a bicycle, you never forget how, you just need a small amount of definable practice to get back on.

Thank you sir! As I said, I know nothing of NAUI. As I may disagree with some of the fundamentals of the argument, I no less respect the information and the opinion. I am somewhat new to the professional ranks of our sport.

 

[Thalassamania]

Respectful disagreement is what leads to good dialectic, which helps us both learn.

 

[Mike Campbell]

For what it's worth I made JD clean the dive locker, do four bailouts in the dive well and five minutes in full open circuit gear with weight belt on and hands out of the water for his lack of attention to detail about the hands and feet being tied.....











I'm just kidding. I only made him clean the dive locker. The other stuff comes later...
Mike