Accident because outboard engine caught fire: Part1, by lumba lumba diving centre

[Albion]

You seem to blame Albion (the original poster) for not contacting you directly. Yet your own staff don't mention it and you say it's a good thing because it shows they accept high levels of responsibility. Unbelievable.

we checked out three days after the incident. The package we had signed up for included Two boats dives per day plus accommodation. As mentioned the last two days were only shore dives, and so we asked that the bill be reduced according to the price for shore dive vs Boat dive. This put the shop staff on the spot a bit, and i had felt i should have raised it sooner (actually felt a little guilty because the girl had obviously spent a long time preparing the bills). She told us that the owners were in Europe (we knew that), and that she had already spoken to them for today, so couldn't confirm this with them. They did agree to reduce the fee, but as you said, they were in communication with Ton, but no one thought to tell him they had a fire, ESPECIALLY as they knew our group had a real issue about it.

I had assumed Ton knew, and expected him to contact us, when none came i mailed PADI and DAN Asia. Once i had confirmation from them that they were in contact with LL, and I still had no reply directly from LL (although i had information conveyed to me by DAN that they had responded with some info) i posted on forums.

 

[JohnHSE]

Poor Ton,

He rambles on and on. And never accepts his part - it's all about others - if only everyone went away and left him to get on with taking money off you.

I was the person that had the conversation with Ton about safety.
I am an international safety expert - 20 years experience in aerospace, offshore, gases, chemicals etc.
Suffice to say that I've picked up a little about what's safe over this time.

I had the discussion with Ton about our safety concerns.
I won't insult you by giving you another marathon to read.

His response to our concerns was REALLY SIMPLE
- we have never had a boat fire
- we don't let people smoke in the compressor room
- we hear what your concerns are
- we are not going to change
- if you don't like it you can go away

Nice,eh! A clearly responsive client focus. Such a caring safety focus.

So Ton - you got it wrong on all counts....except ONE
- Yes - you got the boat fire
- Yes - they DO smoke in the Compressor Room, Ton!! GO LOOK
- No - you didn't hear - our warnings went in one ear and out the other
- Yes - you're NOT going to change - you just make excuses and blame others
- Yes - we went away - pity the issues aren't going to though

PROFESSIONALLY - if this outfit was in the industrial world I would shut it down it is so unsafe. If anyone wants to dive here then you had better know how to look after yourself - don't rely on Ton.

PERSONALLY - actually the over-riding impression after being there with Ton and his staff is THEY JUST DON"T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS.

Lots of talk, Ton, but WILL YOU DO ANYTHING except just ramble on with more excuses why you don't do anything - more blame heaped on others?

Stop talking - and start caring.
Or just be honest for once and admit that you don't care.


PS. Can you let us know what planes you worked on when you were an aerospace engineer, Ton. So that we can avoid them like the plague.

 

[bananas75]

Poor Ton,


PROFESSIONALLY - if this outfit was in the industrial world I would shut it down it is so unsafe. If anyone wants to dive here then you had better know how to look after yourself - don't rely on Ton.


Compared to 'industrial world' standards you'd probably have to close down 90% of the dive operations in Indonesia.....

 

[JohnHSE]

Thanks for your input, and I agree that there are some not so good resorts. But I don't think that I would shut down 90%.

I have logged over 600 dives in Asia, with perhaps 80% in Indonesia.

Most were pretty good, with many outstanding. Yes a few were not so good.
None came even close to being as unsafe as Lumba Lumba.

This BIG difference between others and Ton and his staff was threefold

1 - They cared about us - we laughed together and enjoyed helping each other
2 - They listened to what we said. And they welcomed our suggestions
3 - They improved and were happy to show us how they had learned

None of them said - If you don't like it, you can go away! We're not going to change.

It's about principles and attitude.

 

[Cruiser24]

Compared to 'industrial world' standards you'd probably have to close down 90% of the dive operations in Indonesia.....

for u to make the above remark, i wld like to know how many dives have u made in indonesia and when was the last time u dived in indonesia? how many resorts have u visited in indonesia?

 

[Antarctic-Adventurer]

Just for info, there's a huge thread on this over at Yorkshire divers for anyone who is interested.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Well in spite of my determination to give fair hearing to the other side of this story I just couldn't force myself beyond half way through Part 3. I'm sorry but there is a difference between through and rambling on. I do respect that you clearly spent a lot of time composing your response. There are a lot of great dive destinations on my list and you failed to convince me that yours should be on that list. Perhaps after you have had time to implement your plans???

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Ton said there will be no smoking signs on compressor room and should be. Ton has changed, yet what ton did is set himself up on his thread.

You never going to make everyone happy, the worst thing to do is to be the boss, In that I mean your voice of command is my way or the highway. When this is done, a diver is uncomfortable and it just compiles for each dive and each day.

Now remember that diving is fun, and you take that away and you have no customers. I wish no harm, yet I would not be happy unless there is a change, depends if guilty or not of rants of your service, always grow from past experience.


Happy Diving

 

[luispirata]

Stop, stop. Let's say things with this proper name, and with logical.

I've been in Lumba Lumba, and is the most unsafe diving center I've meet in 20 years diving arround the world.

This was NOT an accident. An accident is another thing.

An Accident is when something wrong happens and arround are basic safety.

This was NEGLIGENCE.

You have not to be Albert Einstain for to understand :

YOU CAN NOT SMOKE IN THE COMPRESSOR ROOM (OR NEAR).

YOU CAN NOT SMOKE NEAR THE ENGINE OF A BOAT.

YOU CAN NOT SMOKE NEAR THE GAS TANKS.

YOU CAN NOT PASS WITH THE SPEED BOAT NEAR ANOTHER BOAT THAT IS WAITING FOR DIVERS.

YOU CAN NOT BE AS ARROGANT AS TON OR MARJAN, when a customer advise about some of this points,and deny logical safety rules.

And, if you do or you are, then something happens. What happens?, a misfortune not an accident.

I advise some weeks before this problem with the boat, in this forum all of you. AVOID lumba lumba, Be carefull, they are not safe, they are not good people.

They've been a lot of problems, and what they do?, nothing. One of this day the problem will be someone dead.

And this is another kind of "problem". This means someone will have no more life, thanks to people as Ton, Marjan, Jim or Tore.

This means the family of this people will be destroyed for the rest of their lives.

This means, buff, this means people as them, COULDN'T play with our lifes.

I've invest my time in report this to Padi, Cmas, Acuc, Dan, Lonely Planet, the indonesian goverment, I've reported to the police (for visa fraud).

I've publish my opinion (and yours) in all forums I've found.

Please do the same. Do the same, because one of this days, someone will die.

And this someone could be your best friend, your father, your son, your daughter or just someone who wanted to spend his holidays diving and having a good time.

Please, just think seriously about it, and act!!!

Please, have a look :

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/whine-cheeze/386113-visa-fraud-lumba-lumba-palau-weh-indonesia.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/382738-danger-lumba-lumba-palau-weh.html

Best regards to everyone, and good dives, and if someone of you are planing to go Mexico/Belice or arround, send me a private message, will be a pleasure dive with you. Regards!!

Luis
(Sorry for my english, I've tried to do my best)

 

[Ngata]

Great work John and the other FFD BSAC club members that have bought this incident to the attention of the masses. The effort that this guy has put into his version of events is truly astounding. Its heartening to see that most of the people who have read it see it for what it is - complete and utter BS. Incidents like this are not trivial or subjective - they're life and death. There is no room for an operator like this in the industry.