Advanced Open Water

[tursiops]

Do you teach SDI and PADI? If you do which do you feel has the better standards and the flexibility that's best for the student, ignoring PADI'S marketing machine. And does both give you the flexibility to teach air sharing the way it was intended to be taught. Handing off the primary


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Yes, I teach both.
Both sets of standards are good, and both allow one to exceed the standards but not ignore any.
"air sharing the way it was intended to be taught" LOL! Where did you get that?
Handing off the primary is from tech/cave diving with a long hose, but is perfectly OK recreationally so long as you've discussed it with your buddy. I, in fact, dive that way, with a 40-inch primary hose that goes under my right arm to a 90-deg elbow. My alternate is on a bungee around my neck. But I discuss this configuration with my buddy and with anyone else in the group I'm diving with, prior to the dive.

Many folks use an integrated LP inflator/regulator ("Air II")....they also donate the reg in their mouth, but their hose is often too short to make that comfortable. I wish anyone doing that would try it out with a buddy before actually needing it, and discuss it prior to the dive.

One reason for the alternate "traditionally" being the one that gets donated is to avoid someone having to take a reg out of their mouth. Why stress TWO people? It works fine (I've seen it and done it for real) so your sneer at it is unjustified.

 

[lb7047]

Yes, I teach both.
Both sets of standards are good, and both allow one to exceed the standards but not ignore any.
"air sharing the way it was intended to be taught" LOL! Where did you get that?
Handing off the primary is from tech/cave diving with a long hose, but is perfectly OK recreationally so long as you've discussed it with your buddy. I, fact, dive that way, with a 40-inch primary hose that goes under my right arm to a 90-deg elbow. My alternate is on a bungee around my neck. But I discuss this configuration with my buddy and with anyone else in the group I'm diving with, prior to the dive.

Many folks use an integrated LP inflator/regulator ("Air II")....they also donate the reg in their mouth, but their hose is often too short to make that comfortable. I wish anyone doing that would try it out with a buddy before actually needing it, and discuss it prior to the dive.

One reason for the alternate "traditionally" being the one that gets donated is to avoid someone having to take a reg out of their mouth. Why stress TWO people? It works fine (I've seen it and done it for real) so your sneer at it is unjustified.

Good answers. Lol. I have been in a couple of out of air situations. All of the divers ripped it out of my mouth. I was never giving the out of air sign. I was trained to give the primary because it works in all gear configurations and environments. It was natural for me to locate my back up and get gas. As far as the short hose I was taught right hand on bcd with elbows tucked in and start a safe ascent. I was also taught that a lot of Octo regs are dangling behind the diver and is not ready available for an emergency. As far as 2 divers having regs out of their mouth at the same time if taught right it shouldn't be a big deal considering a lot of cases there is no out of air signs just the panic diver going for the primary. Plus usually your primary is a higher end regulator that performs better, the OOA diver is going to need it. That's the way I was taught. Like you I keep my backup on bungee. I appreciate the discussion. Maybe divers may get something out of our conversation. Neither of us are wrong. Seriously I do appreciate the discussion without it turning into an argument.

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[tursiops]

I have been in a couple of out of air situations. All of the divers ripped it out of my mouth. I was never giving the out of air sign.

One (real, not imaginary) problem with this is the possibility of the mouthpiece staying in your mouth, and they get a reg with just a plastic hole in the back of it. Now you have compounded their problem. So, "Keep Calm and Don't lose the Mouthpiece" ....check the cable tie on it before a dive.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I teach the SDI deep class. But I require a minimum of 4 dives and 6-8 hours of classroom.

 

[Iralub]

Your right Tursiops. I know it's beating a dead horse. Do you know how many Advanced divers I have seen beating their chest and introducing their selfs as an Advanced diver with their chest puffed out with 10 dives. Lol. What I'm getting at and that's all. The system is giving these divers a false since of security with the word advanced on their. Tell me you can't see this. Let's call it the dive sampler platter like olive garden tour of Italy lol

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My issue has been that dive ops also treat divers with advanced cert as "advanced divers" and then you've got some dms saying "you are all advanced so you won't have a problem with ... ".
And when I respond that I've got the advanced cert, but certainly don't feel I'm an advanced diver in terms of skills or experience yet, people look at me like I'm a wimp. Which may be true, but not pleasant

 

[lb7047]

My issue has been that dive ops also treat divers with advanced cert as "advanced divers" and then you've got some dms saying "you are all advanced so you won't have a problem with ... ".
And when I respond that I've got the advanced cert, but certainly don't feel I'm an advanced diver in terms of skills or experience yet, people look at me like I'm a wimp. Which may be true, but not pleasant

I agree. That's the problem

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[jonhall]

Do you know how many Advanced divers I have seen beating their chest and introducing their selfs as an Advanced diver with their chest puffed out with 10 dives. Lol. What I'm getting at and that's all. The system is giving these divers a false since of security with the word advanced on their. Tell me you can't see this. Let's call it the dive sampler platter like olive garden tour of Italy lol

Never have I had any diver introduce themselves as the level of diver they were, but was with a guy who bragged about the number of dives he had done. Couple thousand, but he dove like everyone else. As Shania would sing, "That don't impress me much." I play a lot of tennis and I play just like Roger Fedderer; we both use racquets! Impressed?

The false sense of security may be true for some but not all. We put young teens in a car (Indiana learner's permit at age 15.) After a driver ed course requiring 6 hrs. of driving, we then say they can get the required 50 hrs. (before getting their driver's license) of supervised driving with just about anyone of age with a valid driver's license. Think how many drivers, young and old, have a false sense of security because they have a "driver's" license. Some of these new drivers are awful (just like some who have been driving for 30 years) and others are good (just like some who have been driving for 30 years.)

I have to say I don't see the deal about advanced (AOW) because I've read the requirements and what the course is about. It is what it says it is; a course to advance your diving and help build confidence (I think you just have to dive more to do that) and expand your skills. The problem I have is that a diver who dives once or twice a year forgets a lot during the off time. Guess thats why some shops want to see that a diver has been diving in the past 12 months or take them on a checkout dive before doing other dives.

My issue has been that dive ops also treat divers with advanced cert as "advanced divers" and then you've got some dms saying "you are all advanced so you won't have a problem with ... ".
And when I respond that I've got the advanced cert, but certainly don't feel I'm an advanced diver in terms of skills or experience yet, people look at me like I'm a wimp. Which may be true, but not pleasant

Most dives I've been on, as an OW diver, where we were either diving below 60 ft. (maybe a wall), a wreck, or had swim throughs of some different formations, the DM has always given the option of either staying above everyone else, swimming above the wreck, or swimming above the formation for those who didn't feel like they wanted to go beyond their limits. There is usually a second DM or instructor on the dive keeping an eye on those divers.

I, on the other hand, have appreciated every dive shop who has allowed me to do these "advanced" dives. Guess I'm just one of those with a false sense of security!! lol

 

[lb7047]

Do you know how many Advanced divers I have seen beating their chest and introducing their selfs as an Advanced diver with their chest puffed out with 10 dives. Lol. What I'm getting at and that's all. The system is giving these divers a false since of security with the word advanced on their. Tell me you can't see this. Let's call it the dive sampler platter like olive garden tour of Italy lol

Never have I had any diver introduce themselves as the level of diver they were, but was with a guy who bragged about the number of dives he had done. Couple thousand, but he dove like everyone else. As Shania would sing, "That don't impress me much." I play a lot of tennis and I play just like Roger Fedderer; we both use racquets! Impressed?

The false sense of security may be true for some but not all. We put young teens in a car (Indiana learner's permit at age 15.) After a driver ed course requiring 6 hrs. of driving, we then say they can get the required 50 hrs. (before getting their driver's license) of supervised driving with just about anyone of age with a valid driver's license. Think how many drivers, young and old, have a false sense of security because they have a "driver's" license. Some of these new drivers are awful (just like some who have been driving for 30 years) and others are good (just like some who have been driving for 30 years.)

I have to say I don't see the deal about advanced (AOW) because I've read the requirements and what the course is about. It is what it says it is; a course to advance your diving and help build confidence (I think you just have to dive more to do that) and expand your skills. The problem I have is that a diver who dives once or twice a year forgets a lot during the off time. Guess thats why some shops want to see that a diver has been diving in the past 12 months or take them on a checkout dive before doing other dives.



Most dives I've been on, as an OW diver, where we were either diving below 60 ft. (maybe a wall), a wreck, or had swim throughs of some different formations, the DM has always given the option of either staying above everyone else, swimming above the wreck, or swimming above the formation for those who didn't feel like they wanted to go beyond their limits. There is usually a second DM or instructor on the dive keeping an eye on those divers.

I, on the other hand, have appreciated every dive shop who has allowed me to do these "advanced" dives. Guess I'm just one of those with a false sense of security!! lol

True but we don't label the new drivers Advanced drivers either,do we?Lol. This sport is ego driven for a lot.I have a saying. You don't know what you don't know. When you find out you don't know could be too late

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[tursiops]

True but we don't label the new drivers Advanced drivers either,do we?Lol. This sport is ego driven for a lot.I have a saying. You don't know what you don't know. When you find out you don't know could be too late

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LOL! You'd make a good politician! I can't figure out what you actually think....you seem to agree with everyone.

 

[lb7047]

LOL! You'd make a good politician! I can't figure out what you actually think....you seem to agree with everyone.

Lol. Yup. Keeping the peace brother. I think you know where I stand on the Advanced issue. Everyone has their opinion and I respect that. It's just nice for a change to have a friendly debate without anyone name calling. Lol. It would be better over beers though.



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---------- Post added July 9th, 2015 at 09:37 AM ----------

Do you know how many Advanced divers I have seen beating their chest and introducing their selfs as an Advanced diver with their chest puffed out with 10 dives. Lol. What I'm getting at and that's all. The system is giving these divers a false since of security with the word advanced on their. Tell me you can't see this. Let's call it the dive sampler platter like olive garden tour of Italy lol

Never have I had any diver introduce themselves as the level of diver they were, but was with a guy who bragged about the number of dives he had done. Couple thousand, but he dove like everyone else. As Shania would sing, "That don't impress me much." I play a lot of tennis and I play just like Roger Fedderer; we both use racquets! Impressed?

The false sense of security may be true for some but not all. We put young teens in a car (Indiana learner's permit at age 15.) After a driver ed course requiring 6 hrs. of driving, we then say they can get the required 50 hrs. (before getting their driver's license) of supervised driving with just about anyone of age with a valid driver's license. Think how many drivers, young and old, have a false sense of security because they have a "driver's" license. Some of these new drivers are awful (just like some who have been driving for 30 years) and others are good (just like some who have been driving for 30 years.)

I have to say I don't see the deal about advanced (AOW) because I've read the requirements and what the course is about. It is what it says it is; a course to advance your diving and help build confidence (I think you just have to dive more to do that) and expand your skills. The problem I have is that a diver who dives once or twice a year forgets a lot during the off time. Guess thats why some shops want to see that a diver has been diving in the past 12 months or take them on a checkout dive before doing other dives.



Most dives I've been on, as an OW diver, where we were either diving below 60 ft. (maybe a wall), a wreck, or had swim throughs of some different formations, the DM has always given the option of either staying above everyone else, swimming above the wreck, or swimming above the formation for those who didn't feel like they wanted to go beyond their limits. There is usually a second DM or instructor on the dive keeping an eye on those divers.

I, on the other hand, have appreciated every dive shop who has allowed me to do these "advanced" dives. Guess I'm just one of those with a false sense of security!! lol

When I hit the 50 dive mark I was Invincible. I had my master diver card. Highest non professional level you could have. When I hit my 100th dive I realized I didn't know s##t. Lol. I guess it's just a normal progression. You can be an instructor with 100 dives and a dive master with 75. Just saying

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