After dive oxygen: shouldn’t the diver decide?

[Wookie]

Correct, but the caveat is that the client is also going to be forcefully referred to medical professionals..like it or not.

I can just see now the goober that insists on sucking down O2 but doesn't want to go to the hospital for evaluation... There is no room for that in my personal paradigm.

When I became a tech diver I changed my whole attitude regarding O2 use on the boat. Before, if you went on O2, DAN was going to get a call. In fact, O2 is first aid for many diving accidents, like a band-aid is first aid for a stubbed toe and ripped toenail, or a fin blister. If you get a fin blister, you don't go to the Emergency room, why all the push to make someone get medical attention?

Now, if you tell me that you suspect that you are bent, you will be given O2. If you get better on the O2, we'll probably call DAN, or let you call DAN. Once DAN is called, we follow their advice, which isn't always to seek higher medical attention. If you don't get better on O2, we will probably suspect that you pulled a muscle climbing a ladder, or whatever.

Point is, going on O2 should not immediately drive you to a chamber. If you want a chamber, we will do everything in our power to get you to one.

 

[Akimbo]

Lots of liveaboards charge for non-emergency Oxygen. For example Odyssey in Truk charges $2/Ft³. Would this be any different than a diver asking for Oxygen who doesn’t exhibit symptoms, want to call DAN, and wants to make the next reped? I think NetDoc’s original post was exploring the idea of a boat providing O2 beyond the emergency treatment scenario.

I probably should have added a winking icon after my “substantial charge” comment… sorry.

 

[Herb-alaska]

Personally a boat that provides non emergency o2 should be able to charge what ever they want but there is a big difference between medical o2 and deco o2. And I understood your meaning on substantial charge i would say that 1st time you need o2 on my boat i write your name down and call and see how you are doing later. the second time you need o2 on my boat i write your name down in my never to board my boat again list.

 

[Bob DBF]

My opinion is if you want O2 after your dive just bring your own.

If a boat has more than enough O2 for emergencies and wants to sell it, opening up a new profit center, it is between them and their insurance company. I just wouldn't want to be the bent diver or boat operator if they sold out all the O2.



Bob

 

[lv2dive]

I've been on a boat when I heard a request to go on the boat's O2 meant a required call to have EMS waiting at the dock. Talk about a disincentive to go on Oxygen!

Personally, I much prefer the attitude/method described below. (of course, choosing one's charters carefully and/or bringing one's own O2 helps alleviate this issue as well!)

When I became a tech diver I changed my whole attitude regarding O2 use on the boat. Before, if you went on O2, DAN was going to get a call. In fact, O2 is first aid for many diving accidents, like a band-aid is first aid for a stubbed toe and ripped toenail, or a fin blister. If you get a fin blister, you don't go to the Emergency room, why all the push to make someone get medical attention?

Now, if you tell me that you suspect that you are bent, you will be given O2. If you get better on the O2, we'll probably call DAN, or let you call DAN. Once DAN is called, we follow their advice, which isn't always to seek higher medical attention. If you don't get better on O2, we will probably suspect that you pulled a muscle climbing a ladder, or whatever.

Point is, going on O2 should not immediately drive you to a chamber. If you want a chamber, we will do everything in our power to get you to one.

 

[NAM001]

Perhaps I am reading the other posts wrong. but as I am reading it,,,,,, the diver should be the one to make the decision to use O2 or not on the boat. Not that the boat has to provide it if asked for. Boat O2 is for designated emergency uses. I would think that if the boat has to provide then the diver should be pulled from further diving based on suspicion of a health problem. If they use their own O2 then let them go for it. If they think they can shorten their SI then that's and issue with one diver. Releasing boat O2 affects any one or more that may need it in an emergency.

I’m a big fan of using pure Oxygen in the right setting and in high doses (partial pressures). Unfortunately I think expecting a charter boat operator to offer pure O2 to any passenger who isn’t showing symptoms exposes them to more liability and expense than they care to incur. Divers or groups certainly have that option to BYOO2, especially if they use it sitting on deck.

Some divers may find this post useful: Oxygen Toxicity Limits & Symptoms

I have purchased or directed the purchase hundreds of thousands of cubic feet of Oxygen over the years and it has all been industrial grade. The purity is the same except it comes in bottles with Brass instead of chromed valves. Most of it came in multi-packs of +/- 230 Ft³ cylinders like this:

 

[Rich Keller]

Based on this, I would like to see dive boats change their policies in regards to after dive oxygen. First, oxygen should be freely available and offered after any incident such as an accident, missed stop (safety or obligated), long surface swim or any time a diver seems to have undergone stress. “Would you like some oxygen?” should be a common question on a dive boat.

That is a good start but I would also offer it before the boat leaves the dock to the divers who show up hungover.

 

[tomfcrist]

When I became a tech diver I changed my whole attitude regarding O2 use on the boat. Before, if you went on O2, DAN was going to get a call. In fact, O2 is first aid for many diving accidents, like a band-aid is first aid for a stubbed toe and ripped toenail, or a fin blister. If you get a fin blister, you don't go to the Emergency room, why all the push to make someone get medical attention?

DCS symptoms are not blisters.....

Now, if you tell me that you suspect that you are bent, you will be given O2. If you get better on the O2, we'll probably call DAN, or let you call DAN. Once DAN is called, we follow their advice, which isn't always to seek higher medical attention. If you don't get better on O2, we will probably suspect that you pulled a muscle climbing a ladder, or whatever.

Point is, going on O2 should not immediately drive you to a chamber. If you want a chamber, we will do everything in our power to get you to one.

Lets explore this a little bit. Forget that you are on a liveaboard and assume you are on a dayboat.

Customer suspects that DCS symptoms are manifesting after a dive and goes on O2(lets assume moderate joint pain). As you are heading back to the dock, the customer decides the O2 isn't making things any better so it must have been a mechanical injury. When you get back to the dock, the customer unloads his gear and hits the road. 30 minutes into his drive the symptoms become so painful that he loses control of his vehicle and veers off the road, ending up upside down in the mangroves after plowing over a couple of bridge fisherman shuttling their gear out to the bridge. Who do you think is getting sued? My guess is that it will be the dive boat captain who let a customer with plausible signs of DCS just get in his car to leave without alerting the coast guard of an impending medical emergency when you were still ion the boat, nor alerting EMS when you got on shore. The captain became the highest man with a secret...In which he decided to do nothing of substance about it.


My personal opinion (of which you have every right to disagree with) is that as a person with a business to protect, one should error on the side of extreme caution then it comes to liability protection.

 

[victorzamora]

The other two times I just had a hard time staying awake. Was it sub-clinical DCS? Both times, after just a few minutes, I did not feel the need to curl up into a little ball and sleep. I haven't had that problem though since I started doing deep stops and lengthened my safety stop to at least five minutes. So, in thousands of dives, I have used it only four times. Only once did it appear to be superfluous but I would do the very same today given the same circumstances. I think that's utterly reasonable even for being anecdotal.

That was my biggest eye-opener. I did about a half-dozen trips to cave country before getting O2-certified. This meant leaving home at 6PM, getting in to the hotel at midnight, 3-5 dives on Saturday, 2 dives Sunday morning, and then out of the water to start my drive home by 2PM on Sunday to try to get home by 10PM (the math doesn't work because of the time zones). Mountain Dew and energy drinks and sugar were required in large volumes to get me home. Once I started diving O2, I started doing a 3min safety stop at 20ft on O2 after every dive. I HAD ENERGY! It was the weirdest thing. Like clockwork, when I forgot my O2 bottle, I felt like crap that trip. Next trip? Felt much better. Subclinical DCS is real.

Because of that, I would want boats giving me O2 if I deemed I needed it. Only problem is you can't trust every moron saying they want oxygen to feel better....so I really can see both sides of the equation. Either way, my buddy "Al" always has some oxygen for me .

 

[HJeffreyM]

This may be a tad off topic as I am referring to nitrox, not 100% O2, but you may be interested in this discussion from 2009:

Nitrox Under The Boat?

I continue to breathe the nitrox after surfacing and on the boat til my spg reads 400-500psi...numerous discussions here (and the physics involved) have made me a firm believer in getting extra Os as long as possible after the dive. Even if there's no absolute benefit on that particular dive, it can't hurt and may have an additional benefit over the course of multiple dives over multiple days. Besides, I paid extra for the gas, I'm gonna use it!