Question Am I wrong to not want a modern computer?

[Jim Lapenta]

Your old computer is just fine for most recreational diving. Now that I am no longer teaching and my diving is taking a serious back seat to other activities, I'm not going to bother with one for local diving.

I'm going to use a bottom timer and tables. And for the one local quarry where you can't get deeper than 45 feet or so, and most of the diving will be at less than 20, I'm not going to bother with anything other than those.

An Al80 will last me around 2 hours. That's only 120 minutes.

NDL for a 20 ft dive is 325 minutes using the Navy Tables. 30 ft is 310 minutes and that's below the thermocline so not spending much time there.

IF I decide to do any deep stuff somewhere else or repetitive dives, I'll take my Shearwater Predator and cut tables on Multi-Deco and stick to the plans and depths.

 

[tarponchik]

For me, the trend of making comps smaller is irritating because the display gets too small for my eyes. Another irritant is the "one button does the job" trend.

 

[LFMarm]

I started diving with Suuntos and the one thing I hated is the lack of transparency on level of conservatism and the fact it would lock if you did something it didn’t like. I would at a minimum get a computer with gradient factors so that you have control over conservatism. Never had a problem with glitches with modern computers but I would not say that a top of the line computer is necessary, it’s just nice and allows you to learn more about deco theory and how to manage diving as you progress.

 

[Zef]

Despite many folks' misgivings regarding the older Suunto puck style computers, there is nothing wrong with diving a Vyper Air or the other Suunto models of that generation.

There were/are a few issues that seemed to plague Suunto puck style computers prior to the "Novo" generation:

1. Suunto uses a proprietary algorithm that some find overly conservative. This particularly affects those doing multi-dives per day, and especially those doing multi-dives per day on multi-day trips such as live-aboards and dive destination vacations.

The limiting effect is that subsequent dives would be considerably shorter than desired, and shorter than those diving with other make/models of computers.

Some of the more current make/models have algorithms that are less conservative, and some also have the ability to adjust the conservativeness of the computer within a certain range.

2. Suunto had a problem with a huge batch of their pre-Novo generation puck style computers that led to a class action law suit. Apparently they had a faulty depth sensors that typically causes the computer to enter into a non-recoverable dive mode when no dive is actually being conducted. I know my verb tense in my previous sentence is mixed between past and present tense...that is on purpose because folks are still occasionally having the depth sensor issue be it due to their computer being from the extensive "bad batch" or their computer's sensor naturally just "giving up the ghost".

The real issue was that Suunto was aware/made aware of the defective sensor issue and chose to not only ignore it, but continued to distribute/sell these computers. This earned them quite a negative reputation and the class action lawsuit that was settled with them offering replacements to original owners in North America. Those in Europe (and I assume Asia) were jilted as they were not included in the settlement and had to foot the bill out of pocket for a replacement/new computer.

3. On the heels of the lawsuit due to the faulty depth sensors, Suunto issued a worldwide recall on their transmitters, recommending/requiring them to be sent in for inspection due to a potential hazard when opening the tank valve on a 1st stage with their transmitter connected. Defective transmitters were replaced free of charge, and non-defective transmitters were returned with new caps, a new battery, and a pair of pressure reducers.

While Suunto, handles this recall exceptionally well, it caused many in the dive community to further question the reliability of their products and opened the door quite wide for their competion to claim a larger share of the market.


All that being said, my household has 6 puck style computers from Suunto, all pre-Novo. 4 of them are Vypers and 2 of them are Vyper Airs. Touch wood, none of them have any problems. If your Vyper Air is going strong, keep diving it until you need or want to replace it.

-Z

 

[johndiver999]

I only use old computers because I can buy them inexpensively. If you are doing nodeco dives and the computer gives you the basic information, I don't need anything else. I have enough to do after diving, I don't need to download dive data. I love one button computers.. you just set the mix and DIVE.

 

[Alex Ouroboros]

I had old suunto’s myself, kept me safe and were just easy, now just about every dive I do has loads of deco and I’m happy with going to shearwater, which are better on my eyes and being able to change colour etc is nice,
Very easy to use and I don’t update it,
If your flush I’d go get a shearwater you’ll never look back, but a 2nd hand vytec would do same job

 

[rongoodman]

Am I wrong to be apprehensive about modern computers requiring software updates?

I would call the fact that those old computers were not capable of receiving firmware updates to fix bugs or add capabilities a bug, not a feature.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I guess the best comparison I can make would be my old Nokia cell phone that was extremely reliable and good at being a phone vs my last Android phone that was extremely unreliable at everything. I just want a reliable phone

Ha ha. I hear ya. Nowadays, it seems like no electronic device is "good enough" out of the box for the lifespan of its electronics/hardware. No, they run such complex (that is, feature-packed) software that they expect users to download updated firmware that fixes the occasional bugs and adds yet more features (that I rarely find myself in need of).

I like simple things. Shearwater's advertising mantra has long been "Powerful. Simple. Reliable." That really appealed to me. However, in my opinion, Shearwaters have gradually become less simple. Sure, the user interfaces are still a lot more intuitive and easier to use than some of my old computers', and that is good, but the number of features and options and configurable this and that keep expanding. It is indeed starting to remind me of my seemingly infinitely configurable old Android phone (before I got fed up and switched to the seemingly simpler iPhone).

Importantly, I believe Shearwater has maintained the Reliable part of their mantra. I would not be concerned about reliability. I check for firmware updates about once a year, and the downloads have always worked fine.

The other day I was notified of an available firmware update for my automatic cat feeder.

 

[rongoodman]

I guess the best comparison I can make would be my old Nokia cell phone that was extremely reliable and good at being a phone vs my last Android phone that was extremely unreliable at everything. I just want a reliable phone

The phone we used to have mounted on the wall in the kitchen did a good job of making phone calls too. I won't be trading in my iPhone for one, though.

 

[Lorenzoid]

The phone we used to have mounted on the wall in the kitchen did a good job of making phone calls too. I won't be trading in my iPhone for one, though.

And the wall phone was near bullet-proof, worked for 30 years without needing any service calls or upgrading to a new model, and for some people (albeit fewer and fewer), just making voice calls is all they really need a phone to do. There are pros and cons to technological advances. My wife and I have iPhone 7, and a number of apps have started to tell us the iPhone 7 does not support the updated app, so I'm grudgingly looking at having to spend a thousand or more dollars for new phones for us, when I'd rather spend that kind of dough on dive gear. Smartphones are a nuisance. Dive computers are only slightly more tolerable to me. I just had our Petrels proactively serviced--replaced bezel and gasket and more--and I'm hoping they are the last computers we ever need.