Another LDS Experience Gone Sour

[DaFireMedic]

The employees time isn't free, having the gear in stock isn't free, having a place to show the gear isn't free, using a pool isn't free, but you have no appreciation for that.

I beg to differ. Those things are not free, but they ARE the cost of doing business. There are a multitude of businesses and industries that offer free estimates, demonstrations, sizings, etc. in the hopes of selling their product. If I was obligated to buy something just because they showed it to me and allowed me to try it out, I would never try anything (I wouldnt be able to afford to), and therefore the shop wouldnt be able to convince me to buy anything. What if he hated the BC, does he still have to buy it just because they let him try it? I had an LDS owner encourage me to try a $3000 rebreather in his pool about 5 years ago, so I did. I didnt care for the feel of the rebreather and didnt buy it. He was trying to sell it to me, but he also knew that it was the first time that I had tried a rebreather, and the chances were that I wouldn't lay 3 grand down for it that day. But he knew for sure that I wouldn't buy it if I didn't try it. He was marketing his product, in the same way that MXRacers shop was marketing the BC to him. Showing people equipment that you feel they may want is a way to entice people to buy. But it is not to force them to buy it.

He showed a lot of appreciation for that shop by training and buying equipment there. It was clear that he was going to continue his training there, and most likely spend a lot more money there on equipment. I'd say he showed A LOT of appreciation to them. It was the shop that failed to return that appreciation.

 

[Sideband]

If I spent a couple of hours at a BMW dealership talking with a salesman who was giving me technical information, advice, and stories, and took the time to go out on a test drive with me, then I went down the road to the next dealership where the salesmen don't know anything and bought my new 530xi because the price on the window was lower, I would be disgusted with myself and I would certainly expect the salesman to give me the cold shoulder if I went back later for something else.

I did exactly that when I bought my last car. I went to a dealership just up the street and test drove a car I liked then went to 2 other dealerships that had the same model to compare prices. I bought from the one that offered me the best price and it wasn't that first place. They have never complained about it when I go in to spend my money on service because they are closer than the dealership where I bought the car. If the sales guy was brave enough to ask about it I'd tell him straight up, "The other guy was a better salesman."
It's MY money. I worked to earn it and I will spend it where I want. I have no obligation to keep anyone in business. I do have an obligation to myself to get the most for the least amount spent. If a business doesn't understand that then they are doomed already.

Joe

 

[Halthron]

You wouldn't walk out of a restaurant without tipping for the free service, because the obligation is implicit in the deal.

Different business models have different obligations and just because something is one way in a model, that doesn't mean it's that way in a different model. To compare apples to apples, tipping is not recognized worldwide. When I first arrived in Greece, I discovered I was getting phenominal service from the restaurants and delivery places. I later discovered that the tipping information I had been given was incorrect. Greeks don't tip "a bit less than Americans", they don't tip at all.

The point is that the service and the food are directly connected while in the LDS, the disconnect occurs between the product and the advice. If you get poor service in an eatery, the food arrives cold, the main platter immediately after the salad, etc. That doesn't occur with buying something from an LDS. Pool availability is part of the desicion making cycle, not the deliverry cycle.

 

[Kriterian]

I do have an obligation to myself to get the most for the least amount spent. If a business doesn't understand that then they are doomed already.

Joe

You apparently forgot that handling the merchandise, trying it out after the shop offers or even looking at it closely forever locks you into a contract with that shop to purchase that item from them. If you don't purchase it from them, all LDS's around the world will explode and airfills will never be available again. Oh the humanity...

Personally I support who I want to support, based on my experience with them. I purchased an O-pac and ended up not using at all. I went with a BP/W instead and instead of returning the O-pac for a full refund, which I was able to do, I kept it so that I could support them. I did this simply because of the way they treated me, and other customers I talked too. Thank you, scubatoys.

It's real simple: The original poster may have been slightly dishonorable but he doesn't deserve to be lynched. The dive shop on the other hand showed it's *** and I'm glad they're losing customers because of it.

 

[bgi]

Nobody is in the free service business. The pool try-out is offered to create an obligation. You wouldn't walk out of a restaurant without tipping for the free service, because the obligation is implicit in the deal. I think this LDS deserves the courtesy of a chance to price match, at least.

The pool tryout is there to create a perception of an obligation. That's sales. You win some, you lose some. Losing lots of future sales by getting bent out of shape over the loss of one sale is just stupid. Or maybe they have so much business they have to run people off?

Agreed that it would be best to give the shop the opportunity to price match. I do. I buy used stuff off this board. I buy some items they don't sell from other places. My shop sees it. I don't hide it. They razz me about it. They don't fuss me out for five minutes: Duhhhh...

There appears to be a lot of guilt-driven behaviour described in this thread. Trying on a pair of pants or a snarf-boogle absolutely does not obligate me to buy anything. Some sales people are trained to identify and take advantage of this behaviour. When money grows in my back yard, I'll be happy to subscribe to it. In the meantime, I'll shop around.

Would you marry someone you don't like just because they took you out to dinner and a movie? Sure, it's an extreme example. But it is a valid comparison.

Take the car example. Sales guy A lets me test drive a car and shares tech info with me. Sales guy B will sell me the car for $10 less. Who would you buy the car from? Probably A. Suppose sales guy B will sell you the car for $10,000 less. Who would you buy from? Would you take the B price to guy A and give him a chance? What dollar amount will sway you from A to B? These decisions we all come to in our own way.

 

[Hoosier]

I have to ask why diving gear is so special compared to the automobile. As I remember from OW class, the auto accident’s rate is much higher than the scuba accident’s one. In the same context, the automobile is more life dependant equipment. Am I right? I am not sure if it is a right statistics though.

Do you believe that your LDS owners always buy the car from the dealer shop where they did a test drive? LOL~~~

Have you ever seen any auto manufactures' commercials that ask the customers to do the test drive at any nearest dealer shop? Actually, they really want the customers to try out their new car no matter what they buy it or not. It is their market strategy.

If you believe that the comfort is the most important factor to choose the scuba gear, every LDS should provide a gear trial at the pool. Otherwise, it is a big disparity on what they used to argue. But, in reality, they can't afford it.

It is a competitive world. The LDS has to tempt the divers with many incentives, such as service, knowledge, and price. Depending on the diver, there is a various degree of priority on each incentive.

If then, it is a big deal to try the gear at their shop pool?

Please don’t be silly. A blind royalty used to spoil your LDS.

 

[OneBrightGator]

I beg to differ.

Differ with what? You agreed with me, cost of doing business or not.

You call that appreciation? *&%$#@&*. It's business. I would bet he took his cert class there cause they were the cheapest (a bad sign in a student, btw) because they certainly weren't the closest. And two sets of mask, fins and snorkel is NOTHING to a dive shop. People want a warm and fuzzy relationship with their LDS... a free fill here, free o-ring there and then when it comes to a purchase they want to haggle you down, where's the appreciation then?

Look, I understand how the business works, I've been in it for 4 years. I will show you the product, give you the run down, help you try it on, the works, but there reaches a point of negative return when my time would be better spent elsewhere, trust me when I tell you that a pool demo is past that point for 99% of customers, as illustrated in this thread.

 

[ssra30]

Differ with what? You agreed with me, cost of doing business or not.

You call that appreciation? ********. It's business. I would bet he took his cert class there cause they were the cheapest (a bad sign in a student, btw) because they certainly weren't the closest. And two sets of mask, fins and snorkel is NOTHING to a dive shop. People want a warm and fuzzy relationship with their LDS... a free fill here, free o-ring there and then when it comes to a purchase they want to haggle you down, where's the appreciation then?

Look, I understand how the business works, I've been in it for 4 years. I will show you the product, give you the run down, help you try it on, the works, but there reaches a point of negative return when my time would be better spent elsewhere, trust me when I tell you that a pool demo is past that point for 99% of customers, as illustrated in this thread.

Sorry that you feel that a customer who buys only small amount of stuffs are not worth your time. I am sure there are other LDS who would appreciate even a small purchase. If you think that a pool trial indicate some kind of a contract to the customer, think again. Granted when I am getting into a pool trial, I am pretty serious about buying the equipment (my time is precious also and I don't waste it just for random trial) but to think that I am obligate in anyway, that's not going to happen. However, giving me a demo in a pool will give me a good impression about the store and I will end up buying something there, may be not this time, may be not as big a purchase or who knows, it might be worth a lot of business in the future but please, do not think that I am committed just because I jump in your pool.

Recently I bought an UW camera housing worth well over $5000 from one place. The other two dealers (who carry different brands of housing) who are very nice, very helpful in my previous purchase who I dive with on a regular basis never complain about my choice, knowing that I would also continue to patronize them. So they did not make any money from me this time, eventhough they did help and demo'ed me their housings as well. At least they showed a little class and give me enough respect so they will continue to have me as a customer.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

Why do dive shops believe they should be treated differently than any other retail business?? Why should I treat them any differently than my clients expect from me? I spend alot of time on proposals, research, a fair amount of money on business lunches, dinners, etc. sometimes I get the contract sometimes I don't, it's the price of doing business. I have to compete against local competitors and internet competitors as well, I constantly have to explain why I charge 10x's more than some pop-up ad they saw online, but I don't cry about it when someone else is willing to do a job for less than I am, or blame the customer for finding the best value for their dollar. 75% of my consulting clients, I didn't even land on my first proposal, but I didn't burn my bridge and chew them out when they went with a competitor or worse weren't serious about the project in the first place, do I feel my time was wasted, sure who wouldn't, but that's business. Everybody seems to understand this except dive shops.

This subject really gets under my skin. They are no different than any other business and shouldn't be treated any differently. Supporting your local small business and local economy is one thing, but the service and value have to make it worthwhile for the customer. Otherwise their just another small business who expects the world to change to their needs so they can make a buck, they throw words out like, "loyalty", "customer service", use tired excuses such as fitting issues and airfills instead of changing their business model. The global marketplace isn't going away, the LP's and Scubatoys are probably pretty happy with the status quo. Personally I'd be happier if their was more than a handful of competition, imagine 10 or 20 online and/or B&M stores competing for your business rather than 3 or 4. I'd be even happier if my LDS was one of them, an option I could seriously consider when making a major purchase, but knowing before walking in the door that I can save 30%+ online, it's not even an option. And you know what I don't have to worry about getting razzed because I didn't buy something there, or heaven forbid I bought it online (and I'm not talking about eBay, that's a different animal all together).

It's just alot of tired excuses for doing bad business with antiquated business practices. The people that defend this for the reasons mentioned above and think that anything is going to change in their favor and not get worse as time goes by, are just plain naive.

All IMHO of course....

 

[tobad78]

Differ with what? You agreed with me, cost of doing business or not.

You call that appreciation? ********. It's business. I would bet he took his cert class there cause they were the cheapest (a bad sign in a student, btw) because they certainly weren't the closest. And two sets of mask, fins and snorkel is NOTHING to a dive shop. People want a warm and fuzzy relationship with their LDS... a free fill here, free o-ring there and then when it comes to a purchase they want to haggle you down, where's the appreciation then?

Look, I understand how the business works, I've been in it for 4 years. I will show you the product, give you the run down, help you try it on, the works, but there reaches a point of negative return when my time would be better spent elsewhere, trust me when I tell you that a pool demo is past that point for 99% of customers, as illustrated in this thread.

Sounds like a local dive shop. Guess what he lost $2000.00 of my money but of course that "wouldn't pay his phone bill". You sound very angry I'm a pschycology major, Do you need someone to talk too?

I had a bad expirence because I bought some fins that my LDS didn't carry and he came up too me after class and stated he could get anything that I wanted. So next purchase I made I tried to get them to come closer to online price they refused to budge. Later I gave him another chance as I was about to purchase 2 reg setups at the annual sale. I tried to get both the same to keep them simple. The owner just walked away. SO again he lost several hundred. I doubt he lost any sleep over it. Then again it's not "enough to pay his phone bill".

I've found another dive shop that is much better, they will get my money.

I own a online shop and WILL Match prices. This is my business and I spend alot of time with customers that don't buy. Thats just business. I don't shun them because of this.. Life is too short to hold grudges!!!!

Haven't you ever heard of VOIP? If your phone bill is that high you should look into it.
Can you state your dive shop so I can add it to my black list? As I'm going to FLorida Diving in late Nov. and would hate to stumble into your shop. But I'm sure the feeling is mutual as it wouldn't cover "your phone bill".


To all LDS

Treat your customers right No matter where they buy their equipment and the next time it'll prob be with you....