Another LDS Experience Gone Sour

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jonnythan:
And they have no obligation to expend any more effort on you.

They would no doubt be happy to ring up the sale if mxracer took an item to the counter, but mxracer has made it clear to the staff that he does not value their time or experience.

That's precisely the attitude that is the problem with dive shops. Who wants to frequent a shop, knowing that any info gleaned from them is proprietary to them and they have the right to hold it against you? I'd have prefferred an open exchange in this instance, as in telling them the price elsewhere and seeing what they are willing to do about it. But being an open honest salesperson goes a long way with customers. Open with the info, even knowing that they might go elsewhere. How can you be any other way and be successful? You'll alienate every customer who buys something from someone else after speaking with you. The customer will never come back for anything else.
 
why do LDS's always pretend that it's about "the relationship" when it's really
just a commercial transaction going on?

they want your money. if you didn't have money to spend, they wouldn't give you
stuff for free, would they?

time in the pool and trying out stuff should be stuff they do TO EARN YOUR BUSINESS.

if you go elsewhere, that means that THEY, not you, are doing something wrong.

here's news for them: they want to sell me stuff? fine...i'll buy it when it makes
commercial sense for me to do it.

friends are friends. business relationships are business relationships.

you yell at me FOR ANY REASON while I am shopping, and you just kissed my business
buh-bye... buh-bye... buh-bye
 
I know what you're saying and I think it's very wrong to try gear at the LDS and then go buy it someplace that has the benefit of lower overhead. But that's not quite what you did. You bought the hogarthian rig which by definition has no sizing issues other than the gross sizing of the backplate. You did experience the BP/W configuration on their nickel and with significant "stuff" beyond the basic rig $650. may have been an OK local purchase.

It would have been nice to offer him the chance to compete on the hogartian rig since that is a much less expensive system.

I personally don't have a problem paying a little exta to buy locally. Having local dive shops survive is important for the sport to grow and for me to grow as a diver. I've had some good experiences, good advice, service, deep discounts on hard luck, like when my wife lost a fin. The cost delta can't be outrageous and they do need to bring something to the table. I have had enough PITA mail order experinces to appreciate the instant gratification of laying my hands on stuff and bringing it to the counter, these are my values.

What would you say if they had offered the HOG rig in the shop for say..... $375. Then spent an hour dialing in the harness and coaching you on getting in and out and letting you take it down in the pool for a shakedown?

Now the other side......
The shop owner behaved like an *****. Surely he knows there is a whole new world that he's competing with. He can't win them all. Meanwhile it sounds like you and your dad are established customers that have helped him continue in business. He would have been much brighter to offer a free or modestly priced once over to make sure your ebay deal was safe and in good order in the hopes of securing your business for annual service of that and other soon to be purchased gear. Maybe even invite you into the pool and point out some additional accessories that could enhance your diving, pockets, retractors, clips, keepers even tease you with that sweet breathing regulator that he knows is a step up from what you were planning. He lost an oportunity and a customer.

Was this the owner? Especially if it was not I'd consider dropping by to do some small business. You do have a history and it sounds like otherwise they were taking good care of you. It seems to be a rough business and you may have caught him at an off moment. Just a thought.

I've been honest with my shop way up front. He's the only shop in my county and lucky for me he's 1/2 mile from my doorstep. I told him, I want to support you. I don't expect list price but I don't expect the lowest online price either, I value what you offer locally. If you carry it you can have a shot at it. If it's an item we need to try I may need to go elsewhere ( he has little inventory on big ticket items and no pool) that's the way it is. He's been a complete gentleman, My wife is a bit fluffy and definitely needed to try her BC before she bought, he had no negative remarks about what she bought. It was a sister brand to one he offers, I pointed out that at least I can give him the sevice business. Before our first checkout dives he was filling our PST E7-80s and everyone was asking about those "little tanks" he was totaly upbeat about the advantages and openly wished he could get some to sell.

So I guess I'm saying you could have both handled things a bit differently. If you feel you had been well served until that incident I'd give them a second chance, but not a third.

Pete




mxracer19:
Well this has been said a billion times before. I went down to my LDS in search of a first tank. I have yet to buy regs or a tank, as well as countless little odds and ends. The day I went down to buy my tank, my dad had come with me. That day, he dropped a solid $140 on fins/booties and earlier this year he purchased a mask and snorkel through the same LDS. I was certified through this diveshop, bought my fins booties mask and snorkel throug this diveshop. I planned on getting my AOW and rescue through this shop. This is where I wouldve gotten all of my airfills. NOT ANYMORE!

Several months ago, I had gone to them ready to buy a bcd. They set me up with some pool time(about an hour) and I tested the one I liked. On the advice from the shop, I tested a bp/w. I loved the bp/w and vowed to buy one from them at a rough cost of $650(transplate w/ stuff). Most recently I was provided with the option of buying a plain bp/w with a hogarth harness. no frills, weight pockets or pads, for ~$340. I leave for college at the end of august, just graduated HS, and I have a part-time job. If given the opportunity to spend HALF THE MONEY on a piece of gear, I have no choice if I want to dive. If the price was like $60 difference, I wouldve bought from my LDS...but $300 is just too much for a chunk of steel and an air bubble.

So Im looking at tanks, and the salesperson comes back and we talk for a second or two, and said person asks, "do you have your regulators and bcd yet?" Well honesty is the best policy, so I remarked, Im saving for a set of regs that I saw here but I bought a bp/w from someone on ebay.

WELL...

The person exploded. "alright, I have a huge problem with you trying it in our pool and getting your fitting right, my employees spending hours of precious time with you, and then you going somewhere else. " bla bla bla yada yada yada. So I sat and took it for a good 5 minutes. Person was relentless. Dad ended up buying fins and booties, and Im just going to order my tank off the internet.

Well I do admit that it was a stupid move to try out a bp in their pool and then buy it off the internet, I can sincerly state that at the time that I tested it, I had every intention of buying from them. They were always nice and they had what I wanted. But damnit, noone is going to tell me where I can spend my money, and no one is going to yell at me for buying from another place to save (!!)$300(!!) off one purchase!

Said person was stupid. Plain and simple. Eventually, my dad would have needed a wetsuit, as well as all of his other gear because he was planning on getting certified. By talking down to me as said person did, person turned away easily, $1200 in business. And no, it was NOT hours of pool time. It was maybe 1 hr. And if person isn't hear to serve, then why have a brick and mortar store? If it was me and I had such a huge issue with people trying and buying somewhere else,then I would charge a fee, like $25 to test in my pool. If you buy that piece of gear or a like product from us, you'd get your money back. Simple and safe and youre offering yet another service to the customer.

Such a shame. Out of the 8 dive shops near me, this was the farthest one for me to drive. I only went there because I enjoyed the people and service, as it was by far NOT the cheapest.

Businesses have to learn that consumers are becoming more and more bargain-savvey. The internet is hear to stay, So if you can't beat em, join em. This shop does not have a website, nor are their prices competetive. And noone likes to be yelled at when they're spending money there.


Sorry for the long rant, this kind of thing happens all too frequently.


-Matt
 
H2Andy:
why do LDS's always pretend that it's about "the relationship" when it's really
just a commercial transaction going on?

they want your money. if you didn't have money to spend, they wouldn't give you
stuff for free, would they?

time in the pool and trying out stuff should be stuff they do TO EARN YOUR BUSINESS.

if you go elsewhere, that means that THEY, not you, are doing something wrong.

here's news for them: they want to sell me stuff? fine...i'll buy it when it makes
commercial sense for me to do it.

friends are friends. business relationships are business relationships.

you yell at me FOR ANY REASON while I am shopping, and you just kissed my business
buh-bye... buh-bye... buh-bye

I thought I read somewhere there was a saying in corporate America "If you want loyalty...get a dog" or was it "get a diver". I get so confused sometimes.

Hooooorah Andy ! :eyebrow:
 
mxracer19:
...... "alright, I have a huge problem with you trying it in our pool and getting your fitting right, my employees spending hours of precious time with you, and then you going somewhere else. " bla bla bla yada yada yada. So I sat and took it for a good 5 minutes. Person was relentless. Dad ended up buying fins and booties, and Im just going to order my tank off the internet.

Well I do admit that it was a stupid move to try out a bp in their pool and then buy it off the internet, I can sincerly state that at the time that I tested it, I had every intention of buying from them.

You were more polite than I would have been. Vendors need to be reminded who the customer is. They too often forget and do something stupid as you described above. I can't believe your dad bought anything after that episode. Retail shops set their own prices (at least to some degree) and if they are over priced they will sell less gear.

The shops are of course frustrated with the loss of business to other providers such as leisure pro. An online shop can never replace air fills or training for example so they will need to expand in that area to make up for what they loose in gear sales. Maybe it's a better idea for them to take a smaller profit margin off a gear sale to ensure repeat business for training and such. Clearly with a scolding you would not likely return for anything else. Your long term business is worth a lot more than the $600 bp/w.

I feel for the shop owners suffering from the loss of revenue from gear sales. From my non-shop owner perspective it would seem they need to focus their business on training, annual maintenance, and other services that cannot be offered online to sucessfully compete. At the end of the day we are not going to spend more of our hard earned money from shop guilt.

--Matt
 
I guess im lucky my local dive shop is scubatoys. I get to try the stuff on and get the low price.
 
Well MXRacer, I'd say you've gotten plenty of support here, but I want to add my own 2cents. I think there's no excuse for the behavior of the salesperson in the LDS. That sort of overly judgemental behavior has no place in sales. It is business and you win a few, you lose a few, but if you do right by your customers they will come back. However, many business seem to take a very proprietary attitude toward "our customers." I get a little tired of that. I am only your customer so long as each and every transaction is a win for me too, not just a win for you.
I would suggest, though, that if this was not the owner, that it might be worth your while to call up the owner and have a chat. There may be a chance that the owner would be horrified by your experience and make it right. Depends on a lot of different things, but if I were the owner in this case I would like to know that my employees are doing a very good job of driving my customers away. Maybe a letter would work better, actually. Anyway, if this store is otherwise a good thing for you it might be a good idea to see if the owner takes any action to resolve this.
 
My dad spoke with one of his friends who also stopped by this dive shop over the weekend. He too agreed that the person was being rather rude and well...bi_tchy. Said person is co-owner of the shop so it wouldn't do any good. Theres no point in opening a whole nother can of worms. I'll just let it drop and move on to a closer diveshop. Obviously this treatment is not only with me, but either way I leave in August for Daytona and I've had the opportunity of picking out my Primary LDS for that area. There's no point in making mountains out of molehills, its only 1 shop in 12 within 2 hour. 6 of them within 1 hour.

Thanks for all the support guys, just figured I'd get a feel for things. They should really start a whole nother forum entitled "Bad diveshop experiances" because I've seen several of these posts.


Cheers
-Matt
 
jonnythan:
And they have no obligation to expend any more effort on you.

They would no doubt be happy to ring up the sale if mxracer took an item to the counter, but mxracer has made it clear to the staff that he does not value their time or experience.

I don't agree with this. First, they were selling someting $600 and the person ended up buying something else that is cheaper. While they provide service, expertize, willing to let the person try out the product etc etc, in the end, they did not carry something that the person want. What the guy at the store miss completely was that he is providing service to cultivate a good customer relationship. Sure he may not buy a BCD there but he may be back to buy something else since the store gives him such a good impression.
Would it be worse if he go out and buy bp/w that is worth $1000 elsewhere because he likes that product better than the one that the store sells?
Divegear is almost never a one time deal so losing out on one sale is not nearly as important as trying to establish a good long term relationship with a customer.
Local store knows that they cannot compete with online store for prices generally so they need to provide other incentives that may or may not justify the price difference.
When I buy a housing for my camera, I do look and try as many brands as I can through many different stores. In no way am I obligated to buy from the store treated me the nicest. It is a matter of what I want and what suit me best.
In this case, the store overreacted and as a result, lose one potential customer, unfortunately.
 
matt_unique:
The shops are of course frustrated with the loss of business to other providers such as leisure pro. An online shop can never replace air fills or training for example so they will need to expand in that area to make up for what they loose in gear sales. Maybe it's a better idea for them to take a smaller profit margin off a gear sale to ensure repeat business for training and such.
--Matt

The local dive shops could just take a step into modern times and do both online sales and store sales. It's not a myth, or some magical barrier that keeps stores from doing both live sales and online ones. Scubatoys does it just fine, and they have the best customer service/business sense that I've ever seen in my 20 years of retail management experience.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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