Another Thing that bugs me about dive shops
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There has been a number of the LDS vs. Internet threads recently. I am sad to say that I have read most of them. This is the first time that I have commented. I guess I'm just bored.
I think the real issue, and it has been eluded to several times, is that SOME Lds's have the attitude that they deserve to make a profit because..., well just because I guess. It's almost like the role of merchant and customer is a little reversed. Like the customer should feel honored to support the lds.
Certainly not all LDS's are like this. My Lds is not, Scubatoys is not, NESS is not (just ordered something from them today and as usual great service) -But I have seen quite a few that are. I think anyone that has made it this far in this thread has experienced at least a little bit of what starts threads like this. Why does this attitude and concept of a business model seem to be so much more common in the scuba retail business than any other? Was this created in part by training agencies requiring brick and mortar shops for endorsement and manufactures controlling so much of the retail end? I don't know, but something is certainly different in scuba retail than any other.
"But isn't the LDS entitled to make a profit?" This question comes up in each of these threads, and usually, I suspect, by some frustrated shop owner. The answer is well - NO. You are not entitled to make a profit. You have to fight tooth and nail for it. I have to, the place where you buy you groceries has to, the person you buy insurance from has to, even your doctor has to. Why should you be any different?
I own a business. It is of reasonable size. I have a little over 100 employees and likely have considerably more invested in my business than many dive shops out there. I am in the restaurant business - I own a couple. Now just because I have the degree, invested the money and worked the hours am I now entitled to a profit? No. Do I give my customers a guilt trip or refuse to give them good service when I find out that they have eaten at Applebee's? No. Do I get frustrated when I see the Applebee's parking lot full? No - Well OK Yes I do, but I don't take it out on my customers. I realize that if they are busy and I am not then they are providing something that the customer wants that I am not. And I will try to find out what they are doing and I try to do the same only better.
See, what I have really learned is that I while I sell food and entertainment, I am really in the marketing and customer service business. I don't sell anything that anyone needs. My establishments are not the only place they can get what they don't need (in fact restaurants are the most common business), and I am really competing with each and every one of my customers as each of them is capable of cooking for themselves.
I choose to do business in a very competitive market. I like competition. I believe that strong competition makes it easier for those good at what they do to be successful and it creates better value for the customer. I sell food and drink, but I am in really in the business of making my customers happy and constantly reminding them of how much they like to partonize my establishment. This is a concept that must be learned if you want to be successful in business. It doesn't matter what business you are in.
For those LDS's out there that think that their customers owe them something and that they should put up with the bs because you have the god given "Aqualung, Scubapro, etc dealership, I am afraid to tell you that your days are likely numbered. Your market is getting smaller and more competitive each day. If you fail to give your customers the perceived value they want and you fail to remind them that you do then you might as well close now.
For those LDS's out there that understand you are selling customer service, knowledge and information, and realize that you are really in the business of marketing your service, knowledge and information then THANKS and keep up the great work. I love spending my hard earned money with you.
Rant over -
Hunter
I think the real issue, and it has been eluded to several times, is that SOME Lds's have the attitude that they deserve to make a profit because..., well just because I guess. It's almost like the role of merchant and customer is a little reversed. Like the customer should feel honored to support the lds.
Certainly not all LDS's are like this. My Lds is not, Scubatoys is not, NESS is not (just ordered something from them today and as usual great service) -But I have seen quite a few that are. I think anyone that has made it this far in this thread has experienced at least a little bit of what starts threads like this. Why does this attitude and concept of a business model seem to be so much more common in the scuba retail business than any other? Was this created in part by training agencies requiring brick and mortar shops for endorsement and manufactures controlling so much of the retail end? I don't know, but something is certainly different in scuba retail than any other.
"But isn't the LDS entitled to make a profit?" This question comes up in each of these threads, and usually, I suspect, by some frustrated shop owner. The answer is well - NO. You are not entitled to make a profit. You have to fight tooth and nail for it. I have to, the place where you buy you groceries has to, the person you buy insurance from has to, even your doctor has to. Why should you be any different?
I own a business. It is of reasonable size. I have a little over 100 employees and likely have considerably more invested in my business than many dive shops out there. I am in the restaurant business - I own a couple. Now just because I have the degree, invested the money and worked the hours am I now entitled to a profit? No. Do I give my customers a guilt trip or refuse to give them good service when I find out that they have eaten at Applebee's? No. Do I get frustrated when I see the Applebee's parking lot full? No - Well OK Yes I do, but I don't take it out on my customers. I realize that if they are busy and I am not then they are providing something that the customer wants that I am not. And I will try to find out what they are doing and I try to do the same only better.
See, what I have really learned is that I while I sell food and entertainment, I am really in the marketing and customer service business. I don't sell anything that anyone needs. My establishments are not the only place they can get what they don't need (in fact restaurants are the most common business), and I am really competing with each and every one of my customers as each of them is capable of cooking for themselves.
I choose to do business in a very competitive market. I like competition. I believe that strong competition makes it easier for those good at what they do to be successful and it creates better value for the customer. I sell food and drink, but I am in really in the business of making my customers happy and constantly reminding them of how much they like to partonize my establishment. This is a concept that must be learned if you want to be successful in business. It doesn't matter what business you are in.
For those LDS's out there that think that their customers owe them something and that they should put up with the bs because you have the god given "Aqualung, Scubapro, etc dealership, I am afraid to tell you that your days are likely numbered. Your market is getting smaller and more competitive each day. If you fail to give your customers the perceived value they want and you fail to remind them that you do then you might as well close now.
For those LDS's out there that understand you are selling customer service, knowledge and information, and realize that you are really in the business of marketing your service, knowledge and information then THANKS and keep up the great work. I love spending my hard earned money with you.
Rant over -
Hunter
diverdowndh
Contributor
Wow, coldsmoke, sounds like you should post more often! Definitely sets a few things straight.
R
redacted
Guest
Originally Posted by Steve50:
Try fitting your mask on the internet
I like to give the LDS a chance on things like this. Do the pricing research on masks you are interested in so you know what competetive retailers offer them for. Then shop your LDSs to find the mask(s) that fit best and give them a shot at making the sale. If they decline to offer a reasonably competetive deal, you may have to resort to the internet dealer
Try fitting your mask on the internet
I like to give the LDS a chance on things like this. Do the pricing research on masks you are interested in so you know what competetive retailers offer them for. Then shop your LDSs to find the mask(s) that fit best and give them a shot at making the sale. If they decline to offer a reasonably competetive deal, you may have to resort to the internet dealer
da-gd
Contributor
my shop of choice is the better of all worlds. thet allow me to spin around the net, find a real good price at a real internet retailer, then...THEY MATCH IT! i get the best price and i get to touch/play with stuff. Saguaro Sports
Except their website is stuck in the year 2006. Even thought the owner stated in March of 2007 that he'd have a new website with an online store up in 2 weeks. I'm still waiting for that and for any of the instructors that works there to call about any PADI specialty training. I've been in their book for 4 months with a note to notify of any specialty training and haven't received 1 call.
It seems all they do at that shop is OW training.
It's a shame they aren't better. They do try to match prices and have free air fills. Plus I could walk to that shop.
For what it's worth, when vultures ate my first mask (don't ever leave gear alone on a table at Manatee Springs in Chiefland, Fl!! The vultures seemed to LOVE the silicone gear....), I ordered a $12 one from Leisurepro. Works great, fits fine, I love it. Maybe I just got lucky, but it seems to me like most masks work for most people....
You and DandyDon both pointed out problems with the milk analogy....and it has plenty of flaws....I merely used it because I am somewhat lactose intolerant, as best as I can figure, and had eaten some dairy product earlier int he day and was feeling the effects of it...
But, it is interesting that there are milk price controls, and many LDS's base their arguments for price inflexibility on price controls. I don't understand why anyone, government or business, is enforcing price controls, as they seem to me, from an economics and historical standpoint, to be an evil thing in general. I'm proud to say that I'll be supporting my LDS, Cave Excursions East in High Springs, Fl, again tomorrow! I'm also proud to say that I ordered two regulators from 123scuba.com earlier this week, as CEE could not get me a good enough deal on some DiveRites. And I can almost garuntee you that Rich at CEE will not give me a hard time about the purchase. And that's why I contine to drive 30 minutes to get my air! (there is another shop 7 minutes away, but they charge over double the cost, $4 compared to $9.50)
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I sure don't see the effect of milk price regulation ... I can purchase a gallon of milk at the local Albertson's for $3.85 ... or at WalMart for $2.29 ... or at the AM/PM convenience store down the street for $1.99. That's almost a 100% variance from high end to low.
I'm not sure what it would cost on the Internet ... but if my LDS sold milk it'd probably be about $6 per gallon ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I'm not sure what it would cost on the Internet ... but if my LDS sold milk it'd probably be about $6 per gallon ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
medic001918
Contributor
Sure, you could say a shop is entitled to make some profit if that's what you believe. I think they have to work for it like others have stated. And if they can't be competitive when it comes to price...they don't make any profit from me if I choose not to spend my money at their shop. So for some (not all), maybe some profit is better than no profit.
Shane
Shane
Parysa
Contributor
The thing that drives me crazy is the attitude that if you buy something from another shop, you're being "disloyal". I am a poor college student, and if I can find something cheaper somewhere else, I'll go there b/c if I don't, I usually can't afford to get it at all. My gear has come from 4 different places. The bottom line is, it's MY money and no one has the right to tell me where I can or cannot spend it and they don't have the right to get offended if I choose not to spend it on their product b/c they're charging more than what it's worth.
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