Any tips and examples on how to configure and attach a stage / deco bottle?

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Actually it is pretty clear that while you may be able to do that, it is not at all the purpose of using the system. Because DiveRite is throwing videos up unedited, and not pulling old videos down, and not arranging the videos in chronological order, and is not updating their own product webpages to reflect new approaches it is hard to put together.

On top of it all, all divers always claim to be doing things a certain way forever way before anyone else did it that way. While DiveRite does not spend much time talking about their own flailing through different approaches that ran into problems, and they include lots of fairly recent video (2009,2010) of using approaches that they claim to have given up in the 90's, or even in the 80's in one case, the fact is that the system they have now (2012) is the end result of trying and discarding other approaches. In order to appear to have known everything since the beginning of time in the talking during the videos, they are failing to acknowledge that this new approach is actually something new and different to 2012, and it is not what they were doing even last year(2011).

It is not a combination of approaches, it is a different approach to how to how things hook up to a bungie while maintaining hard metal attachment out of the water, and allows a ring that the upper tank clip to to be repositionable and still bungieable, with the upper tank attachemtn point in a specific location on the tank. Not using it this way is just using another bungie system, which generates various problems with mulitiple tanks (which the Nomad system just makes disappear). One tank per side works well enough in good conditions with any setup, but because hook up of the upper end is relatively insecure in a bungie system (either in terms of the dry weight of the tanks over powering the bungie, or because UW they are positionly insecure, or have to be fixed into position and left) , bad conditions makes three or more tanks a real PITA, or it did before the Nomad system (chokered clip, stages strap, shoulder mounted upper clip, upper clips snaps to a ring that hangs unde the arm off a solid metal attachment, which ring is bungies to pull into position.)

There a several parts that if not used together makes the system as unwieldy as any other bungie system. If you loop the bungies then it is not going to work the same, because the tanks will be sloppy in and out of the water, and you lose the ability to reposition them freely. If you do not use the clip chokers it is not going to work the same, because the clip can wander and tangle. If you do not use the stage straps it is not going to work the same, because their is no other way to fix the bottom of the top clip on the shoulder of the tank. etc.

Not using the system as designed is no big deal, but it is also not going to generate any benefits over all the other systems which are annoying to use out of the water, and/or hard to hook up on the move underwater systems out there. The upper clip needs to be on the stage strap so that the clip can be bound to the valve, so the the tank is not wiggling/swinging around with the length of the clip providing lots of slop, and the clip itself simply never needs to be found because it always in the same place on the bottle.

The chokered neck clip is the heart of the system because it fixes the upper point to a location (the ring) that is on a bungie. If a diver is not going to use the neck choker, and/or not clip it to the ring, then the DiveRite hardware is just the same as everyone else's. And the chokered neck clip itself is something brought over from the 2009-2011 system of clipping the neck clip to the bungie rather than the Ring. The neck clip in that system was easy to hook up, but the bottles were sloppy as hell in the water, which made the neck clips not seem to be useful.

And the valves chokers just weren't useful in the 2009-2011 DiveRite system, because the tanks were always in each others way clipped off, and not stable out of the water, because bungies are just not stable enough for many conditions.

I don't really know what you are trying to tell me. I understand the ring bungee system, and used it for a while myself. All I was doing was answering a question that someone posted saying that the Nomad Loop Bungee looked just like the ring bungee. Dive Rite stated that these were designed so "traditionalists" can use the bungee by looping it over the valve, or they can be used as the Dive Rite Ring Bungee System.
 
I'd suggest saving yourself some aggravation and getting a couple of stage kits from Edd at Cave Adventurers.

Totally second that suggestion!
I played around with some home made kits and could never get it to work properly (was always rolling to the side) Bought one of the kits and it just worked. I think the precise lengths of bungee and so on are pretty critical for the system to work correctly.
Edd said it took him a couple of hundred dives to get it right.
 
Big thanks for everyone for the overwhelming response! All noted and will take on board during test runs!

I sidemount steel 120s and carry one stage/deco bottle on top of each clipped to the rear rail and lower chest D-ring. I prefer to have all this on before leaving the boat. When carrying a 5th and 6th stage/deco bottle, I will have those handed to me once in the water and I will trail those by one clip and can change where I clip them for trim purposes or to move them out of the way to access the other stage/deco bottles. Lots of practice will make whatever your choice is comfortable and familiar.

I think I might "attempt" this method when it's time for boat diving trials, tho it'll only be with 1 stage / deco bottle :)

I've seen a video of someone that has their deco bottle clipped to the top chest D ring and the primary on a lower chest D ring. I think that makes sense in getting a better visual on the deco bottle for confirmation as it's further forward. I've been clipping my primaries to the top chest D ring so far, might try it on the next one down and see how that effects trim and what I was used to.


I've been diving sidemount in caves and off boats for about 10 years and I'd suggest saving yourself some aggravation and getting a couple of stage kits from Edd at Cave Adventurers. What I do on boats depends on the dive and conditions. As a general proposition, I've got a clip at the neck of my stage bottles/deco bottles for boat diving. If it's just going to be bottom gas and o-2, I put the o-2 cylindar by the gate, gear up with my sidemount tanks, pick up the deco bottle at the gate and clip it to a crotch d-ring, jump and then normally I'd leave that bottle near the anchor line and attach my line reel to it and the wreck. If it's a deeper dive and the current isn't too bad, I'll use an equipment line for larger deco bottles and go grab them before I head down the anchor line, and put them back on the line at the end of the dive before I climb the ladder. A strobe at the bottom of the equipment line is a good idea.

The sort of boat dives we do here won't have the luxury of an anchor line. We normally run live boats with shot lines. So it's carrying all your stage / deco with you for me. Crotch strap is interesting place to clip a tank, but unless you're 7ft tall won't the tank be in the way as in dragging on the ground / hitting the boat as you jump in?

What's the advantage of the Cave Adventure stage rigging vs say a Light Monkey / Halcyon one? I'm not in the US so some of these good stuff are a little more difficult to source!

No photos at this time. I have a long list of photos I need to get, just no time to get them! But, FWIW, on my Armadillo I have an additional grommet on each side where I can feed through an additional bungee loop for the deco cylinders. On my Nomad, I just feed the bungee loop through the same 1 inch d-ring as the main bungee loop. The deco loop needs to be slightly longer than the main loop.

I think I get what you mean, from your experience does the deco bottle feel really sloppy without this additional bungee?
 
Big thanks for everyone for the overwhelming response! All noted and will take on board during test runs!



The sort of boat dives we do here won't have the luxury of an anchor line. We normally run live boats with shot lines. So it's carrying all your stage / deco with you for me. Crotch strap is interesting place to clip a tank, but unless you're 7ft tall won't the tank be in the way as in dragging on the ground / hitting the boat as you jump in?

What's the advantage of the Cave Adventure stage rigging vs say a Light Monkey / Halcyon one? I'm not in the US so some of these good stuff are a little more difficult to source!

I

I was thinking more of the traditional situation where you're tied into the wreck and can leave deco bottles near the anchor line. That's certainly going to make things a lot more difficult and I guess you're going to have to rely on having someone on the swim platform to hand stuff up to. As for the crotch d-ring thing, I hate trying to clip up deco bottles in sidemount when I'm on the bench, and then hobbling to the gate with all that #$%. I just grab the bottle, put the top clip on the d-ring, swing it out in front of me and jump. I find it's way easier to get things where I want them underwater if I'm going to be swimming with everything.

---------- Post added April 27th, 2012 at 09:07 AM ----------

I have not looked at the Halcyon or Light Monkey kits. What I like about Edd's kit is the stretchy bungee at the bottom, it makes it easy to find the rail and pulls the bottle in close when it's clipped up.
 
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I have not looked at the Halcyon or Light Monkey kits. What I like about Edd's kit is the stretchy bungee at the bottom, it makes it easy to find the rail and pulls the bottle in close when it's clipped up.

Bill,

Does Edd's kit use a bungee at the tops as well?
 
I don't really know what you are trying to tell me. I understand the ring bungee system, and used it for a while myself. All I was doing was answering a question that someone posted saying that the Nomad Loop Bungee looked just like the ring bungee. Dive Rite stated that these were designed so "traditionalists" can use the bungee by looping it over the valve, or they can be used as the Dive Rite Ring Bungee System.

I got confused as to who was asking what, maybe? Sorry.

My only point was meant to be that the system as a whole (first stages facing out, neck chokers with all the tanks clipped by the neck clip to same D-Ring not bungied separate, etc.) is how the whole thing comes together for me, and using it separately does not make the world of difference.

Since (IMHO) there a other, better ways to use loop bungies than to try and make the Nomad Ring Bungie into a looped bungie system, I was trying to point out that looping using the Nomad ring bungie is missing what makes the system come together as a complete unit. I was using half the system and it was not really working, until I realized that DiveRite's videos fail to connect the whole system, and some fairly important details were not being highlighted in the videos.

For me, the move to using the whole system in its entirety made deco handling silly easy underwater, and above ground tank handling doable. Previously to putting the whole Dive System together, I was having to sling deco bottles, instead of sidemounting them, or fight with the bungie circus to get things straight under water, in the deco bottles.
 
I think I get what you mean, from your experience does the deco bottle feel really sloppy without this additional bungee?

The problem with not pulling them closer is, as with standard stage bottles, they will rock back and forth as you swim along. Pulling them into you with a bungee keeps them from doing this.

As for the SM stage kits, you can easily put one together for minimal expense. All you need is 2 bolt snaps, a worm gear clamp, and about 1.5 feet of shock cord. You can also get a short length of plumbing tubing to put over the screw on the worm gear. This should cost you about $20-25. The shock cord on the worm gear clip needs to be as short as possible. You should have almost no stretch at all on that one. The shock cord around the neck should be about a 10 inches long. Once folded in half, knotted, and wrapped around the clip it will be about 3 inches unstretched. The location of the worm gear will depend on the distance from your lower attachment point to your chest d-ring. The idea is to stretch the top bungee enough to stretch the 2 attachment points out enough to cause the cylinder to lay flat on top of you. The cylinder won't move around at all if you do it this way. You will also need a couple of hose retainers to hold the stage hose on the body of the tank.
 
Thanks. It was hard to tell from the pics. What's the deal with the quick link on the end of the top clip?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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