AOW course question

[Web Monkey]

For me my optional three were naturalist (did on own), peak performance buoyancy (did with instructor), and I think, boat dive (because I flubbed the night dive and they wouldn't count it). Nothing to boat dive - can do that on your own too.

OK. This is killing me. I'm not PADI and have no idea what their requirements are for a night dive, but what could you possibly have done to have them not count it?

Was it night? Did you dive?

Terry

 

[D_B]

I disagree with the "it's partially your fault too" comment
AOW is geared to new divers, and as a new diver, how are you to know what questions to ask? or how to assert yourself to the instructor underwater? and especially to someone that you expected to be training you to be a safe diver?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

We as adult students should have expectations of what we want to learn and maybe how we feel comfortable learning it as well! Seems we don't teach the fist up signal at all or very little! If your instructor swims off make a noise and put up your fist for the "Hold" sign and communicate! Let them know your agenda, its your time and money, make them work for it! Your the Boss! People wouldn't take a Photo class dry and not understand anything and then just complain! SO why do it underwater? Say, "I didn't get it" or "what don't I get about this program?" Your paying for a service, please make sure you get what you paid for, it's as much your fault as they other adult!

I disagree with this completely.

Most agencies teach their instructors to sell AOW as soon as possible after OW. Part of the result of this is that you have students who are completely clueless as to what to expect ... they're too busy trying to process the information they were supposed to have learned (but often didn't) in the OW class they just completed. They haven't a clue what to expect, or what questions to ask ... they're taking the class because the instructor told them they should, and they trust this instructor to be looking out for their best interests.

This is among several reasons why I do not advocate taking AOW directly after OW ... most people who do end up not learning anything, and ... in effect ... pay more money than they should for five guided dives. In this case, sounds like she didn't even get that much.

If an instructor isn't in the water with you, it isn't instruction. You're just paying for the C-card.

If an instructor is in the water with you, but doesn't teach you anything new, it isn't instruction. You can save money by simply hiring a dive guide to show you around.

If the instructor expects you to learn by "reading the book" it isn't instruction. You can buy most student materials on e-Bay for a lot cheaper than a class.

My advice to all divers ... even the ones I teach ... is that once you've completed a class, take some time to go diving. Get comfortable with the skills you learned in the last class. Discover where your comfort zone is, and what skills you want to improve on before you sign up for the next class. That way, you'll have a clue what questions to ask, what goals to set, and what expectations to make of your instructor.

Unless you do that, you're just trusting that the instructor will be able (or willing) to actually teach you something for the money you're paying ... and that will often not be the case.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ScubaSteve]

I disagree with the "it's partially your fault too" comment
AOW is geared to new divers, and as a new diver, how are you to know what questions to ask? or how to assert yourself to the instructor underwater? and especially to someone that you expected to be training you to be a safe diver?

I agree with you on this D_B. Unless someone has spent a fair bit of time educating themselves on scuba diving prior to certification, they would not know what to ask. I am still amazed at the number of divers that say "Huh?" when asked if they are using SB or something similar. Therefore, many will take their next training and just assume it was the way it should be.

I did not ask my grade 12 English teacher if he had read Shakespeare prior to taking the class. I made the assumption based on his position that (s)he was qualified to teach/instruct me. The same falls true to the vast majority of new scuba divers. Most fall victim to the "White Lab Coat" syndrome where anybody in a "wetsuit" that says they can certify them becomes an instructor. It is only after, that it becomes apparent that something was not quite right and that some instructors really are not that good or effective.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

did not ask my grade 12 English teacher if he had read Shakespeare prior to taking the class. I made the assumption based on his position that (s)he was qualified to teach/instruct me.

It's really up to the agencies to police this. Those that allow some of their instructors to run "certificate mills" are doing all of their students a disservice by creating uncertainty about the quality of education they offer.

I know there is a small but extremely vocal contingent of PADI-bashers who prefer another agency that (a) offers courses that are tougher to pass (they routinely fail students) and (b) has very high standards for instructors and the curriculum offered.

Personally, I would like to see an agency decouple the two points. It would be very nice if there was an agency that offered entry-level "recreational" training but was very strict about their instructors and the delivery of the curriculum.

 

[ScubaSteve]

........It would be very nice if there was an agency that offered entry-level "recreational" training but was very strict about their instructors and the delivery of the curriculum.

Completely agreed. However, I think I would prefer it if the agencies would simply find a way to ensure that ALL certifications are taught to the appropriate levels. Not just entry level. I am not a fan of PADI however this is nothing to do with a specific agency. I got my AOW through a NAUI shop and was less than impressed. The reality of it is, if all agencies are not capable of ensuring proper training, then we will continue to roll out divers that are a danger to themselves and others. Anybody can "successfully" pass a course and then choose to ignore their training afterwards as they see fit. That happens all the time. That to me is something different altogether. All I want is for the training of people (all agencies and all levels) to be more effective.

And I think that people should stop defending the agency failures by stating that it is the fault of the unknowing and untrained student who puts faith in the person certified by these agencies to teach them.

 

[tropitan]

Sorry, yes, I forgot to mention there was a night dive included, for a total of six dives.
Dive#1-'refresher' dive
Dive#2-Naturalist dive
Dive#3-Photography dive
Dive#4-Nav. dive
Dive#5-Deep dive
The last two dives I have not done yet. Since this is a great opportunity to ask, I will: What are the most important skills I should take from these two dives? Obviously, the first four dives were for recreation, but the Deep and Nav. dives are critical skills. Thank you all for your input.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Dive#4-Nav. dive
Dive#5-Deep dive
The last two dives I have not done yet. Since this is a great opportunity to ask, I will: What are the most important skills I should take from these two dives? Obviously, the first four dives were for recreation, but the Deep and Nav. dives are critical skills. Thank you all for your input.

If I have any PADI Deep Dive that I liked, it would feature the following:

• A refresher of calculating air consumption, including measuring the pressure when I hit full depth and the pressure before ascending, then calculating the consumption in cubic feet/by volume.
• A follow-up calculation of rock bottom/minimal pressure for the deep dive. This can be done after the dive once the consumption has been calculated from your own measurements.
• A demonstration of nitrogen narcosis. There are some threads suggesting that physical routine tasks like hose drills are better than mental calculations. In my AOW Deep Dive, the instructor had me calclate my surface air consumption on a slate at 90', accomplishing two objectives in one. I don't know if this is optimal or not.
• The use of at least one alternate air supply. I was trained on the use of a pony bottle. This is controversial to some, but I would think you ought to at least know how to use one even if you don't plan to carry one. Learning to use doubles would be serous overkill, and the use of a Y valve or H valve is probably only necessary in cold water locations like Ontario. But I would think you ought to come out of the deep dive having practiced switching to an alternate source of some kind, including checking the gauge and so forth.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sorry, yes, I forgot to mention there was a night dive included, for a total of six dives.
Dive#1-'refresher' dive
Dive#2-Naturalist dive
Dive#3-Photography dive
Dive#4-Nav. dive
Dive#5-Deep dive
The last two dives I have not done yet. Since this is a great opportunity to ask, I will: What are the most important skills I should take from these two dives? Obviously, the first four dives were for recreation, but the Deep and Nav. dives are critical skills. Thank you all for your input.

Well, I can tell you what critical skills my students take away from those two dives ... but I don't teach a "typical" AOW class.

For navigation - we first go over using a compass. That's pretty standard. Then we talk about what critical information is needed in order to use the compass to actually find your way around underwater. We talk about the necessity of keeping track of depth, time, and direction travelled. We discuss how to use visual "clues' for natural navigation. And then we go over the process of what I call "mental mapping" ... which is using the above information to build a little "map" in your head of where you are going relative to your starting point during a dive. We may do some dryland practice prior to a dive so the student has an idea of how to do it. Then we go dive. I use little flags with headings on them to lay out a course. The students follow each heading to the next flag ... and when they find the last flag it says, simply, "Home". Their task is to make their way back to the buoy line where they started.

For deep diving - we cover proper dive planning, including gas management skills. We discuss some basic deco theory, so the students understand how the increased pressure of going deeper accelerates the amount of gas they're dissolving in their body, and why it's important to ascend slowly and maintain an appropriate dive schedule. We talk about the potential risks of deep diving ... DCS, narcosis, CO2 loading, oxygen toxicity, hypothermia, and sensory deprivation ... and how to mitigate those risks. We discuss conditions that might predispose someone to the risks of deep diving, and what they can do about them (if anything, in some cases). We cover equipment considerations for deeper diving. Prior to the deep dive, we take some air consumption measurements, and I hand them a dive plan for the deep dive we'll be doing. Prior to the dive, they will need to do some calculations to figure out how much gas they need for the dive (I don't take anyone to 100 feet on an AL80, and I want them to see for themselves why it's not a good idea). The students write the dive plan on a slate, and their job during the dive is to stick to the dive plan and show me some good buddy skills. After the dive, we calculate how much air they actually used, compare it to what they predicted they'd need, and have a discussion on why there may be a difference between predicted and actual gas usage. And, BTW ... my "narcosis test" is an OOA drill at some point during the deep part of the dive. I'll spit my reg out and signal my student that I'm OOA ... I want to see (a) how long it takes them to recognize the problem, and (b) how they respond to it.

As I said, mine isn't a typical AOW class. Diving in Puget Sound isn't easy, and we don't do dive guides here. Visibility is typically not all that great, and good navigational skills are essential if you don't want to end up doing long surface swims, or coming to shore a long distance from the parking lot where you left your car. A lot of new divers are fascinated with depth, and it's real easy to get crazy-deep here ... even on what might otherwise be easy shore dives. I try to prepare my students to deal with local conditions before telling them they're "good to go" for deeper dives.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Prior to the deep dive, we take some air consumption measurements, and I hand them a dive plan for the deep dive we'll be doing. Prior to the dive, they will need to do some calculations to figure out how much gas they need for the dive (I don't take anyone to 100 feet on an AL80, and I want them to see for themselves why it's not a good idea). The students write the dive plan on a slate, and their job during the dive is to stick to the dive plan and show me some good buddy skills. After the dive, we calculate how much air they actually used, compare it to what they predicted they'd need, and have a discussion on why there may be a difference between predicted and actual gas usage.

Brilliant! My AOW instructor took a similar tack. I made a plan before the dive based on no deco limits. When we did the gas consumption calculation after the dive, he helped me realize why the dive plan I initially formulated was too aggressive for a situation where I may have to provide air for another diver.