AOW course question

[Papa_Bear]

I am an advocate of personal responsibility and in this case it does apply! No one makes you take the class in a structured prerequisite and for that reason once you finish you BOW you should not check your brain at the door! I contend a BOW diver can have one independent dive or a 1000! I know of a few of those! I do think a diver needs to have 30 dives on their own to become comfortable with gear and know what they need in an AOW course! The OP knew enough to know he didn't get what he thought he was signing up for! That's why he posted in the first place! He felt cheated out of an expected experience! Well if he can asses that now, why not tech divers to stop and ask for what they expect at the time! I know of a diver that stopped supporting his local dive shop because the felt cheated out of certain aspects of his training, not the money, but didn't stop the instructor and ask for what he paid for! If you order a Burger and it doesn't have meat on it you don't eat it and then complain! You say something right there and get what you ordered! Students need to be consumerized when it comes to dive services, Boats, Shops, Resorts, and yes Instructors!

If you say it is a Photo Dive and you don't teach technique or slower is better and rush the student through then you get the OP! He knew he wasn't getting what he paid for and should stopped the instructor right there or on the boat (Beach) and told him what he posted here!

To say the DIVE student doesn't know is living in a fish bowel, since the OP seemed to figure it out! I won't turn my life or eduction over to someone because they are the "Expert" with demonstrating their expertise! If you don't know your getting snowed then maybe you shouldn't buy bridges or risk your life underwater!

How do weed out the bad instructors if no one says anything and we all count on the "Agency" to police a world wide group of instructors we will continue to hear about this kind of post after the fact!

 

[ScubaSteve]

.......If you order a Burger and it doesn't have meat on it you don't eat it and then complain! You say something right there and get what you ordered!......

So you order a Burger WITH MEAT????? Obviously you must because you know that it is likely that chefs are ill prepared to provide you with what you are paying for. This is not sound logic in my mind. I agree that if a student feels cheated they should demand better but it sounds like you are saying that the instructors and agencies have no need to provide suitable instruction and training unless specifically asked for it. "They did not ask if they would be in the water so no need to offer it....." They did not ask if there was air in the tank so need to offer it...."

Flawed logic is tough to back up in my opinion. Yes demand better if you feel shorted but YES expect that instructors and agences should be able to guarantee you what you paid for without concern IMHO.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

YouTube - Dr. Strangelove- War Room

But seriously, the middle ground is to realize that the choice between (a) the instructor offering a quality product/service without being asked, and (b) the customer/student speaking up for himself and demanding a quality product/service is a false dichotomy. Both views are correct, and each party bears responsibility for ensuring the outcome is successful.

the student in this question is smart enough to get a second opinion from SB, and will doubtless have something to say about the Nav and Deep dives. However, the instructor is not absolved of responsibility for offering a crappy service on the experience dives just because the student didn't speak up.

Both partees are mutually and severally responsible for the outcome.

 

[tropitan]

Thank you for that, Reg. Actually, I didn't really think about it until I woke up early the morning after the dives, and thought " hell, I was gipped!" That same day, I called the Course Manager for the shop, and her response after my compaint was "sorry you had a bad experience"! That really galled me, so now I'm wondering if I should stick to my guns and complain to the owner of the shop. Would you? I think of myself as an educated, thinking person and I regret not saying something to the instructor after my dismal 'photography dive'. Yes, I know I could have just read the book for those recreational dives and learned all I needed to know. I also know I could have saved the $300 for the boat dives, and done them myself, at my own pace. I know the ability to dive deep, and the ability to navigate are essential skills to becoming a more accomplished diver, and that is my goal. All of this being said, my last question is this: Should I take the 'Rescue Diver' course from PADI? It seems PADI is the only ageny offered in Kona. Thanks again.
Bob

 

[Papa_Bear]

Yes, yes, and Yes! Divers need a certain amount of independence and old fashion gumption! Have the shop owner make it right or tell you why! My logic is just fine, I got an A from a good instructor in my logic class!

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Should I take the 'Rescue Diver' course from PADI? It seems PADI is the only ageny offered in Kona. Thanks again.
Bob

Well, as mentioned often, there are two issues with the big, popular agencies: 1. Their material is deliberately easy (it is almost impossible to fail an OW class, for example), and 2. They exercise little or no quality control on the instructors.

Rescue Diver is a particularly good idea, so I don't think #1 is an issue. #2 on the other hand... What I am trying to say is that it really does depend on the instructor. Even though PADI is the only agency, is that one shop the only source of instructors?

You may find that another instructor comes highly recommended. Or if you go to a little trouble, you might be able to work something out with a visiting instructor. I would use resource like ScubaBoard to canvas for an instructor that comes recommended.

My guess is that somewhere in the world there are instructors who can give you very good value for a PADI course. It's just a matter of finding out which ones are in Kona.

 

[NudeDiver]

These kinds of discussions make me REALLY glad I am basically finished with taking scuba classes. Just the solo diver class and then I'm done. Ugh.

Anyway - it would be nice if PADI implemented a "mystery diver" (ala mystery shopper) program - where it secretly planted students in classes to get the scoop on instructors - and then used this program to weed out as necessary. Expensive? Sure. But, if properly done, could go a long way toward fixing these kinds of deficiencies....that, and being more selective about who it allows to be instructors to begin with.

 

[Web Monkey]

Anyway - it would be nice if PADI implemented a "mystery diver" (ala mystery shopper) program - where it secretly planted students in classes to get the scoop on instructors - and then used this program to weed out as necessary. Expensive? Sure. But, if properly done, could go a long way toward fixing these kinds of deficiencies....that, and being more selective about who it allows to be instructors to begin with.

I suspect they don't do it so they can claim "plausible deniability"

Terry

 

[Web Monkey]

These kinds of discussions make me REALLY glad I am basically finished with taking scuba classes. Just the solo diver class and then I'm done. Ugh.

While everybody doesn't need to take classes forever, and you don't need to take every mickey-mouse class that exists, some classes are actually really useful, and with less than 100 dives (according to your profile), I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss everything else that can be learned about SCUBA.

Also, while a "solo" class will teach you how to be "safer"(not "safe") when diving alone, it won't teach you everything you might find useful. And unless you're diving solo with nobody else in the area, diving solo won't "protect" you from another diver that requires assistance. You'll still need to be sharp on all your buddy and rescue skills, since someone may come up to you and expect to share air even if they're not your "buddy".

Terry

 

[Papa_Bear]

The day you stop learning is the day you should stop diving! Whether formal or not, never stop your diving education, always find something to challenge you and someone you can learn from! I was fifty when I took full cave! :shocked2: