Back Inflation BC is SUICIDE!!!

[divad]

Thats what my new instructor says!

Talking to idiots is kind of like suicide, just more tedious. Being instructed by idiots is more like torture. I know, maybe I should STFU.

 

[ranger979]

So, the other problem with this scenario is that Rescue training (at least mine -- NAUI) teaches that you always dump your own buoyancy and do a controlled ascent while controlling both your buoyancy and the victim's buoyancy with the victim's BC. To just hammer on the victims inflator and hope for the best is not the best care that you can give, and is probably worthy of earning you a lawsuit if you are Rescue trained. This option A should never occur.

This instructor should not be an instructor.

I'm not trying to get off track here, but is these true? What about if there is a decompression requirement that hasn't been met? Just wondering what the prefered method of handling such a situation.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm not trying to get off track here, but is these true? What about if there is a decompression requirement that hasn't been met? Just wondering what the prefered method of handling such a situation.

Depends on the circumstance ... which is why Rescue class needs to be about using judgment as well as using technique. You would have to make a judgment call as to what was your best option for both the victim's and your own best chances of recovery.

You have to make a choice. Do you "send" the victim to the surface and remain for your own deco obligation? Do you go up with the victim and blow off both your obligation and theirs? Or do you try to keep the victim down with you to attempt to honor the obligation?

The first option depends on whether or not there is surface support readily available (i.e. a boat, and a means of communicating with them that there's an emergency that requires immediate assistance). The second option depends on whether or not you're willing to (or feel it's necessary to) risk your own well-being to provide surface assistance yourself. The third option depends on whether or not the victim is conscious, whether there is adequate gas for both of you to honor the obligation, and whether a delay in treatment will be detrimental to the victim's chances of survival.

If you are bringing both of you up from depth, the victim will be incapacitated, and chances are your choice for the victim is the chamber or the morgue. Personally, if this is the case, I'll pick the treatable option ... even if it means both of us will require the treatment.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kennedydive]

NWGratefulDiver is correct. It comes down to judgment. Each scenario could be different. If I had a minimal deco time say less than 10 minutes than I may blow deco if O2 is available on the surface which it should be if you are doing decompression dives. If I'm coming up from a deep dive and loaded to the hilt with nitrogen and require a long decompression hang, than chances are it has become a recovery vs. a rescue and then you have to think of yourself. Like I said each situation is different and each diver may accept different levels of risk to save another diver. It's not black and white but several shades of gray.
Jason

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

NWGratefulDiver is correct. It comes down to judgment. Each scenario could be different. If I had a minimal deco time say less than 10 minutes than I may blow deco if O2 is available on the surface which it should be if you are doing decompression dives. If I'm coming up from a deep dive and loaded to the hilt with nitrogen and require a long decompression hang, than chances are it has become a recovery vs. a rescue and then you have to think of yourself. Like I said each situation is different and each diver may accept different levels of risk to save another diver. It's not black and white but several shades of gray.
Jason

Yep ... the correct call depends on the severity of the injury and the amount of deco obligation ... keeping in mind that if you incapacitate yourself you cannot help the victim and have just created a second victim.

There are few cut-n-dry answers in rescue scenarios ... judgment will almost always come into play when determining the best course of action.

But tying this back to the original thread ... it would be a very rare situation where you would want to just inflate the victim's BCD and send him to the surface. About the only situation I can think of where that would be desireable is if there were a second victim, and you are the only person around to assist.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Diver0001]

Thats what my new instructor says!

I love back inflation BC but my instructor advises against them very strongly. His argument is as follows:

SCENARIO A - If a diver looses consciousness underwater, his dive buddy inflates his BC he will rise up to the surface. If he has not dropped the reg from his mouth there is chance of him surviving - provided he is wearing a jacket style as that would keep his head way up the water once on surface. If he is wearing a back inflation nstead then the BC will keep his head tilted below the surface raging surface water will beat the reg away from his mouth and Guaranteed drowning!

SCENARIO B - If you get drifted away into the ocean (like the characters in the movie OPEN WATER) and you are stranded in the ocean for hours you would not want to be wearing a back inflation BC. Unless you deliberately float on your back the back inflation BC will kill you just like in scenario A!

Who agrees / disagrees with this logic and why?

He's assuming that a jacket will automatically float an unconscious diver face up.....and/or that you can't float on your back with a wing.

Neither of these is true.

R..

 

[Furner]

PADI should do something about the bad myths of back inflation BCs. They probably wont, but it needs to be addressed.

 

[ranger979]

Depends on the circumstance ... which is why Rescue class needs to be about using judgment as well as using technique. You would have to make a judgment call as to what was your best option for both the victim's and your own best chances of recovery.

You have to make a choice. Do you "send" the victim to the surface and remain for your own deco obligation? Do you go up with the victim and blow off both your obligation and theirs? Or do you try to keep the victim down with you to attempt to honor the obligation?

The first option depends on whether or not there is surface support readily available (i.e. a boat, and a means of communicating with them that there's an emergency that requires immediate assistance). The second option depends on whether or not you're willing to (or feel it's necessary to) risk your own well-being to provide surface assistance yourself. The third option depends on whether or not the victim is conscious, whether there is adequate gas for both of you to honor the obligation, and whether a delay in treatment will be detrimental to the victim's chances of survival.

If you are bringing both of you up from depth, the victim will be incapacitated, and chances are your choice for the victim is the chamber or the morgue. Personally, if this is the case, I'll pick the treatable option ... even if it means both of us will require the treatment.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That's pretty much what I was thinking. I suppose from a purely recreation dive perspective, it might be ok to say that you should never have to send someone up unassisted, I am alway highly suspect of such clear cut answers. Life is seldom black and white.

 

[OneBrightGator]

PADI should do something about the bad myths of back inflation BCs. They probably wont, but it needs to be addressed.

Could you further explain this?

 

[Furner]

Could you further explain this?

as a widely respected and supported organization, PADI has the power to set the facts straight regarding back-inflate BCs. Some instructors dont even know the difference between the myths and facts of BI BCs, and therefor scare their students into never trying one, and then cause those students to continue to spread myths, and further, cause these students to also not trust a potential dive buddy who may use a BI BC. Personally, I experienced several misinformed divers on my recent boat dives, one individual was informed by his OW instructor that BI BCs are only for tech divers and they will cause many problems at the surface. I let this person try out my DR BP/W, and let them see that a properly configured, fitted, and utilized BI BC is no more dangerous than a jacket BC, and actually less dangerous when used properly.