Back up Air Supply?

[MrSmitty13]

Having my first experience with Ted showing Denny and I his regulator underwater "claiming" it was a free flow got me thinking more about the importance of a back up air supply. Being new, I guess it just hasn't crossed my mind that much yet since I've just about always been with an instructor prior to M&G. Anyway, I was thinking about getting for emergencies one of those small "spare air" units. I'm just curious what all of you more experienced divers think. This would only be for one tank dives, nothing extreme, just as an "in-case." What are the pros and cons of the spare air? If used, how long does it last? (Yes Ted and John, I do realize if I sucked an 80 down like a hoover I'll probably swallow this can whole ) What about usage in the cold cold waters of the great lakes? Will it freeze up like lower end first stage regs? Thanks for the input!

 

[Thalassamania]

Spare air is useless for diving, it was designed for helicopter escape and is suitable for that task.

13 foot pony is best summed up by Mike Hanna, "enough time to say the Lord's Prayer."

30 foot pony ... that starts to be a reasonable choice.

Best the best plan is to have a buddy you can count on and that you've drilled with.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

A 40cf pony seems to be a pretty popular choice around here for the type of diving you're talking about. You'll need a regulator for it so at first it's a bit of an expensive proposition but it's cheaper than buying a Spare Air then realizing it doesn't suit your needs and buying the pony later.

A good hand signal review before the dive (and usage during the dive--TED) eliminates the question you guys were facing. Personally when I see people take their reg out of their mouth I watch and if it doesn't go back in fairly quickly I offer mine, they can always turn me down
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[gtxl1200]

A good hand signal review before the dive (and usage during the dive--TED) eliminates the question you guys were facing. Personally when I see people take their reg out of their mouth I watch and if it doesn't go back in fairly quickly I offer mine, they can always turn me down
Ber :lilbunny:

Yes you are right.. That is a bad example on Denny's and my part. Especially with a very new diver. Now all kidding aside. I wasnt really wanting help. I was in a quarry. I was thinking in my head, but they werent reading my mind. I was showing them that I had a free flow, and was heading back to the exit point. At this time we were only in about 40 or so feet of water. I thought once again in my head that they saw the free flow and saw me heading back, they would just finish the dive without me. Now on second thought also a bad idea. With a very new diver watching. Dont dive ALONE Keith. If a problem arises know your hand signals, and keep with your buddy at all times. Ok done hijacking thread. As you were

 

[cldwdiver]

Hi mrsmitty13,

I wish I could have met you at MnG, but I had to call in sick this year.

To answer your questions,
There are literally endless threads on using (or not) using Spare Air's or Pony's here on ScubaBoard.

In My Opinion:
If you are planning on Exceeding 130ft or doing Planned Decompression Stops, then a Pony is the wrong choice.
That qualifies (to most) as Technical Diving and you need the training and equipment (doubles etc.) to do Technical Diving safely.

The Pony tank in 19/30/40 cu-ft size is useful to the non-technical / recreational diver in Equipment Failure or Out-of-Air situations at depths between 80*-130 feet.
(* The 80ft depth is "My Personal comfort level". Others may want to set it shallower.)

The Pony's purpose is to allow me to do an Emergency Ascent and MAYBE a Safety Stop. Nothing more than that.
The assumption is that I have kept myself in a No-Deco-Stop status and can go directly to the surface if I have to.

You should always plan on completing your dive with the gas in your main tank.
The Pony is a Backup to my Backup (my dive buddy).

It also fits in with my personal belief in being a self-sufficient/self-rescue diver.
I prefer to sling my 19cu pony under my left arm now. I tried a tank-band attachment, but it was not as convenient as slinging it. With the 19cu size, it does not affect my side-to-side trim either.

How did I decide to start using a Pony?
My Experience: recreational diver for over 35 years. I purposefully limit myself to 130ft, no-planned-deco dives.

A previous dive buddy (who has since moved) and I started doing more dives in the 80-130 ft range. Both diving with 80 cuft tanks. Over time, our air consumption started being pretty well matched. We decided that if we were in the last half of a deep dive and had to share air for some reason, our buddy would also be getting low on air by then. Setting up a condition where we could BOTH be out of air while ascending/sharing-air. Not Good. Adding Pony tanks seemed to be the simplest solution.
Given unlimited funds, the Technical Diving route would have been taken. Being "Married with Children" that was also an unlikely occurrence.

 

[muddiver]

I dive recreationally a lot like cldwdiver, but I carry a 30 cubic foot backup cylinder so I can self rescue if necessary. With a complete first and second stage regulator and a small button gage you have a fully redundant emergency supply for a controlled ascent. How you mount it is a matter of preference. I like my little bag that straps to my main cylinder because it is out of the way behind me instead of hanging in front and dragging in the mud.

I also do not think that a SpareAir of any size is adiquate for recreational diving deeper than 30 feet.

 

[Jchoby]

Don't waste any money on spare air...not unless you want to be buried with it. I'll use a pony when I think conditions warrant it. But for the most part, good buddy skills and situational awareness will keep you out of trouble.

 

[MrSmitty13]

Yes you are right.. That is a bad example on Denny's and my part. Especially with a very new diver. Now all kidding aside. I wasnt really wanting help. I was in a quarry. I was thinking in my head, but they werent reading my mind. I was showing them that I had a free flow, and was heading back to the exit point. At this time we were only in about 40 or so feet of water. I thought once again in my head that they saw the free flow and saw me heading back, they would just finish the dive without me. Now on second thought also a bad idea. With a very new diver watching. Dont dive ALONE Keith. If a problem arises know your hand signals, and keep with your buddy at all times. Ok done hijacking thread. As you were

Well the way I look at it, something really good came out of it. Seeing it in real time shows the possibility of how easily something can go wrong (even though it was not anything serious). Being new I'm glad I got to see that. Its like when you're young driving a car, you think you're invincible until you're part of an accident or you see something like that.

Hi mrsmitty13,

I wish I could have met you at MnG, but I had to call in sick this year.

To answer your questions,
There are literally endless threads on using (or not) using Spare Air's or Pony's here on ScubaBoard.

In My Opinion:
If you are planning on Exceeding 130ft or doing Planned Decompression Stops, then a Pony is the wrong choice.
That qualifies (to most) as Technical Diving and you need the training and equipment (doubles etc.) to do Technical Diving safely.

The Pony tank in 19/30/40 cu-ft size is useful to the non-technical / recreational diver in Equipment Failure or Out-of-Air situations at depths between 80*-130 feet.
(* The 80ft depth is "My Personal comfort level". Others may want to set it shallower.)

The Pony's purpose is to allow me to do an Emergency Ascent and MAYBE a Safety Stop. Nothing more than that.
The assumption is that I have kept myself in a No-Deco-Stop status and can go directly to the surface if I have to.

You should always plan on completing your dive with the gas in your main tank.
The Pony is a Backup to my Backup (my dive buddy).

It also fits in with my personal belief in being a self-sufficient/self-rescue diver.
I prefer to sling my 19cu pony under my left arm now. I tried a tank-band attachment, but it was not as convenient as slinging it. With the 19cu size, it does not affect my side-to-side trim either.

How did I decide to start using a Pony?
My Experience: recreational diver for over 35 years. I purposefully limit myself to 130ft, no-planned-deco dives.

A previous dive buddy (who has since moved) and I started doing more dives in the 80-130 ft range. Both diving with 80 cuft tanks. Over time, our air consumption started being pretty well matched. We decided that if we were in the last half of a deep dive and had to share air for some reason, our buddy would also be getting low on air by then. Setting up a condition where we could BOTH be out of air while ascending/sharing-air. Not Good. Adding Pony tanks seemed to be the simplest solution.
Given unlimited funds, the Technical Diving route would have been taken. Being "Married with Children" that was also an unlikely occurrence.

I think this sums it up very well as to what I'm looking for. Being new and only doing this for fun at the moment, I don't see myself exceeding 80 feet anytime soon. I also totally agree (and from what I've read on other SB posts) that yes a good buddy should be your primary backup. I guess its just nice to know you have that "extra" backup if something else goes wrong.

With that said, My mind is drifting towards the 19' or 30' pony now. (spare air has long exited my mind ) Just trying to keep size in mind as well as a decent amount of air for a max of 80 feet. Probably I wont be seeing the purchase anytime soon but its something to work on.

 

[RPanick]

When you do get a pony bottle, make sure you drill yourself with it extensively. When you really need it is not the time to be figuring out how to use it. Also practice handing it off to your buddy, you may need to do that some day as well.

 

[micklock]

I use a steel 40 and a lot less weights​