Bad Dive Master

[Scuba_Steve]

Nice generalisation.

Complete lie.

LOL

Yeah OK boys.

I've never seen 60 dive DM's in the water either.....lol (Or complete train wrecks of Instructors who have passed an IE for that matter)

Too fast to the rank, not up for the job in a majority of the cases. By standards, they are just not tested well enough to be of much use whatsoever. Most by way of their in-experience before they get into the role (a serious training flaw, by agency design no less) are in fact a liability I do not need.
My "DM" is an AOW diver with a clue. I'll stick with him, thank you.

Regards

 

[pilot fish]

"There is just no substitue for experience. Just because you're certified does NOT mean you are qualified."
There is no other way to say it.

I'm gald you feel safer having taken the National Geographic course but that would not make me feel safer diving with you.

WTH is this ??? So ... just when is it time to expand your skills while under the guidance of a good instructor? It's not "advanced" for anyone with the comfort level to safely do the dives .. I did OW, Nat Geo, AOW in that order, all in a row .... First, just to have fun, to improve my skills, and to be a better diver than I would have been without taking it, not to mention to have a blast in Catalina diving for the classes Yep, that would be me again, although I had a specific goal in taking rescue (to safely dive with my friend that's never dove here) I may not be able to "rescue myself" but I'm a safer diver for have taken the class.
Again .. just when is it do you think it's time to become safer at this diving thing?

Great job there with the blanket statements that just don't apply to everyone

DB

 

[D_B]

"There is just no substitue for experience. Just because you're certified does NOT mean you are qualified."
There is no other way to say it.

I'm gald you feel safer having taken the National Geographic course but that would not make me feel safer diving with you.

... nor would I want you to be
but I did not say anything about "qualified" and you single out the Nat Geo course, but do not mention my other classes .. are those others a "joke" as well?

 

[BuoyantC]

After four O/W dives you could have as little as 60min. total bottom time. With some agencies, no navigational skills are even taught. Still this meets the minimum standards of the industry. So taking an AOW class immediately after OW serves a great need of "giving addition instruction in specific areas". What's wrong with that? The term 'Advanced' is just the name for the next level of instruction, not an indicator of diving skill.

If a diver takes an OW class and then just does the once a year dive trip it's not continuous learning. Someone on the board here once said it best that there's a lot of difference between 100 dives and 1 dive done a hundred times. Same applies here. Doing classes sequentialy reinforces learning.

Now as to the DM issue........ THAT's different! That is concidered a 'professional level', and should imply mastery of skills. 60 dives is barely enough to learn some divesites well, let alone learn how to dive, teach, lead, be responsible etc. (JMO)

Dennis
p.s. Nice to hear the apology to the Coast Guard Catherine..we heard ya.

 

[pilot fish]

I did not say anything about "qualified ]]D B

OK, then I think we can agree.

 

[pilot fish]

So, you think taking a new diver with less than 60 minutes TOTAL bottom time in 4 dives to 100 ft or lower is wise? You think a brand new diver with 4 dives, and less than 1 hour in bottom time, has mastered thier buoyancy enough to go deep? Really?

After four O/W dives you could have as little as 60min. total bottom time. With some agencies, no navigational skills are even taught. Still this meets the minimum standards of the industry. So taking an AOW class immediately after OW serves a great need of "giving addition instruction in specific areas". What's wrong with that? The term 'Advanced' is just the name for the next level of instruction, not an indicator of diving skill.

If a diver takes an OW class and then just does the once a year dive trip it's not continuous learning. Someone on the board here once said it best that there's a lot of difference between 100 dives and 1 dive done a hundred times. Same applies here. Doing classes sequentialy reinforces learning.

Now as to the DM issue........ THAT's different! That is concidered a 'professional level', and should imply mastery of skills. 60 dives is barely enough to learn some divesites well, let alone learn how to dive, teach, lead, be responsible etc. (JMO)

Dennis
p.s. Nice to hear the apology to the Coast Guard Catherine..we heard ya.

 

[victor]

I have met an instructor with less than 100 dives logged, and yes he did log training dives.
I am guessing but I suspect he had less than 20 dives that were not part of his training.
Diving under the supervision of an instructor is not the same as diving with your buddy under your own steam.
When has he had time to learn how to search for critters, being taught how to drift dive is not the same as doing it.
I understand that PADI etc want you to take as many certifications as they can sell you, getting a card does not mean that you are an experienced diver.

If after your OW you are nervous then you and your buddy should dive with a divemaster. Not as part of another certification just as a dive. My first 10 dives after I certified were with my instructor or a DM. We resolved buoyancy problems, I switched to a dry suit (that was a good laugh for all), we learned about our new environment. We gained some experience and confidence. We then dived a buddy pair and or as part of the group. Only then did our instructor suggest we do AOW.

 

[Hoyden]

I have met an instructor with less than 100 dives logged, and yes he did log training dives.
...
I understand that PADI etc want you to take as many certifications as they can sell you, getting a card does not mean that you are an experienced diver.

If you met a PADI certified Instructor with less than 100 logged dives, both he and his instructor lied to PADI and falsified documents since PADI requires 100 logged dives to become an instructor. You can start the class with less, but cannot be certified to instruct before completing 100 logged dives.

Cards certainly don't equal experience, but not all experience is equal either.

 

[Michael Schlink]

I've said it before we need more certifications or at least the certs need to represent the training. The term DM is simply too broad AND often it's difficult to train a DM to the many levels that this broad term represents. Example I have worked with many DM's that were fantastic, hard worrking teaching assistants. These DM's had perfected their skills and their ability to work with and help new divers was beyond reproach. Now some or even most of these DM's simply wouldn't be able to handle a boat load of divers, especially if you throw in some rough weather.
I have been on boats that had knowledgable and hard working DM's that were great at handling boats and managing all that entails getting divers in and out of the water, I doubt seriously that some of them would have been able to perform as teaching assistants as well as some that I have worked with.
AND I know a lovely lady that works/worked as a DM/Store Mgr. including boat handling and teaching asst. that frankly, is the best DM I've ever seen, period. Any of you that think you've got the DM mastered would pale compared to her.
My point is that really DM is too broad of a term and that there are many facets of a DM. I think the number of dives required is irrelevent. Give my a dedicated, excited new diver that wants to be more invloved in diving than just diving and I'd be more than happy to start their training

 

[yak]

Am I the only one who thinks this is REALLY weird... a lockout from a fast decent? I can't believe that even happens.

I was wondering the same thing. WTH ???