British Expert Bashes Padi

[The Kraken]

I must agree that the term "advanced" carries too may connotations for myriad divers.

Albeit I'm a PADI instructor, I find it difficult to incorporate the term "advanced" into the profile of a diver with less than 20 dives.

As a previous poster stated, it's a matter of interpretation of the word and its intended meaning.

the K

 

[jtivat]

I must agree that the term "advanced" carries too may connotations for myriad divers.

Albeit I'm a PADI instructor, I find it difficult to incorporate the term "advanced" into the profile of a diver with less than 20 dives.

As a previous poster stated, it's a matter of interpretation of the word and its intended meaning.

the K

So that being said will you give an AOW card with under 20 dives?

 

[divetraveler]

I support the idea that we are adults and responsible for ourselves. I feel that PADI gave me the fundamental skills that I needed to become a decent diver. I should note that my dive class was taken at the local community college and took about 7 weeks. I really feel that it was through the skill of my instructor and the amount of time he spent with us that gave me the knowledge and skills to be a good diver. I do feel that longer courses would be beneficial and refused to allow my husband to get a fly by resort cert. Bottom line to become a good diver you have to want to be one and you need to be trained by someone who has the experience and knowledge to teach.

 

[The Kraken]

So that being said will you give an AOW card with under 20 dives?

Will I give one, no. If it's earned, yes.

the K

 

[ChrisA]

[The problem is not with short OW classes. They teach you enough to be safe in easy conditions that are like where you were trained. Statisitcs really do prove this out. The problem with the system is that thesr is no requirement to maintain and further develope skills.

I'd like to see the industry have some kind of recent experiance requirements -- for example a rule that says that if you don't have 6 dives in the last 90 dyas you need to have an instructor dive with you until you meet the 6 dives in 90 days rule. OK change the numbers but N dives in M days for any reasonable N and M.

 

[meesier42]

I have thought about this for a long time, and come to the conclusion PADI really does stand for Put Another Dollar In. Their instructors rarely know half of what they should and always claim they know everything.
Although I appreciate the concept of PADI OW, cause anyone can try diving and not be overwhelmed and discouraged. BUT I feel this training is only good enough to dive with an expirienced guide that is aware of your limitations and is prepare to react.

An advanced open water diver should be safe to dive by themselves (with a buddy of course) and should be required to demonstrate the skills required to do so. This takes a lot more than carribean clear water diving with DM watching you. I mean planning and subsequently following dive plans, surge, night, navigation, deep, dive expirience.
And even after all that your still just a beginer. Its a JOKE that you can become a PADI MASTER SCUBA Diver after 50 dives. After 50 dives, most people I know haven't learned anything yet.
Personnally I think what PADI calls a M.S.D. is about what an advanced OW diver should have. Hence the reason most of the tourist places that I have been don't let you leave the DM or if they do the DM just shadows you from a little farther away and don't tell you they are following/watching you.
But my NAUI AOW card took me longer to get than PADI OW, AOW, and Nitrox combined.

 

[SparticleBrane]

But my NAUI AOW card took me longer to get than PADI OW, AOW, and Nitrox combined.

My NAUI OW/Nitrox course took longer than most instructor courses...

 

[jbd]

[The problem is not with short OW classes. They teach you enough to be safe in easy conditions that are like where you were trained. Statisitcs really do prove this out. The problem with the system is that thesr is no requirement to maintain and further develope skills.

I'd like to see the industry have some kind of recent experiance requirements -- for example a rule that says that if you don't have 6 dives in the last 90 dyas you need to have an instructor dive with you until you meet the 6 dives in 90 days rule. OK change the numbers but N dives in M days for any reasonable N and M.

I understand the point you are making but doubt it would work. As an instructor I would expect to be paid for this since my neck goes on the liability chopping block. I doubt anyone would pay for the experience of diving with an instructor. Its hard enough now to get people to take a scuba refresher class when they should.

 

[jbd]

My NAUI OW/Nitrox course took longer than most instructor courses...

Thinking to myself, "resist the temptation, resist the tempation" The temptation is growing stronger, I can't resist much longer I'm holding out as long as I can. Can't resist much longer. Oh what the heck---Are you a slow learner

Just kidding SB but it was such a good set up as my wife would say.

BTW I trust you are back to diving after your surgery not long ago.

 

[drbill]

I agree with the conclusions re: the dumbing down of training regimens. However I won't point the finger only at the agencies involved. In part they arfe responding to the "instant gratification" mentality of the public these days.

To call a diver with 10 dives "advanced" is in most cases ludicrous if not nearly criminal. I waited 40 years before getting my AOW... wanted to make sure I was ready for it (despite the fact that my original cert allowed me to do everything the PADI AOW did).