British Expert Bashes Padi

[EvilSlumLord]

[The problem is not with short OW classes. They teach you enough to be safe in easy conditions that are like where you were trained. Statisitcs really do prove this out. The problem with the system is that thesr is no requirement to maintain and further develope skills.

I'd like to see the industry have some kind of recent experiance requirements -- for example a rule that says that if you don't have 6 dives in the last 90 dyas you need to have an instructor dive with you until you meet the 6 dives in 90 days rule. OK change the numbers but N dives in M days for any reasonable N and M.

The problem is that they don't train you enough to realize that you aren't cut out for all the possibly complicated diving situations that are out there. I think it is fair that in the OP it talked about training in warm water and then going to the UK for your follow-on dives. There's a huge difference between the two and the quickie courses aren't built to make these (and other) important points stick. Certainly they talk about diving in cold water, etc. but it doesn't really give it the attention it deserves.

 

[EvilSlumLord]

However, the additional course time would not change the fact that the individual did not disclose his health issues to PADI. Therefore, the instructors would not have had the oportunity to address the risk issues with him.

I feel for him and his family, but diving can be a dangerous sport.

TOM

Agreed although I might argue that a more rigorous course might have disuaded him from trying to slide through (or would have surfaced that he wasn't really fit enough to do the work required when in the course). In my OW class there were some people that were pretty out of shape and yet they passed without much difficulty.

Perhaps another way of addressing it is to make a physical mandatory rather than only if you elect to admit you have health problems (or someone notices the gushing chest would you have). Doesn't seem like much to ask but I suspect the industry would see it as a hurdle that would limit how many people would go through the effort.

 

[dmmike]

I was cert. by PADI over 20 years ago, I also became a DM then an AI with them and help in the pool almost every week and attend the open water cert dives once a month. Not bragging, just some backup for my comments.

From what I've seen most people have no idea of the risks relating to diving, and when you try to discuss them as an adult most people believe it will not happen to them.
I've seen people not read any of the material, not watch the video, and still expect to be hand feed the information each week in class.

People need to accept responsablitly for thier actions, and have an understanding of what they are getting into. I have no problem telling people that there is little margin for error and they need to follow the rules, dive with-in thier ablity, and in conditions they can manage. If they chose not to, thier buddy needs to pack a body bag not a lift bag.
I know it sounds cruel, but .........

I know that I've been luck to be able to dive with a group that continues to refine thier skills on every dive, take dive planning very seriosly, and still to this day debrief after every dive and review each other performance. Does this take the fun out of diving... no way, by understanding the conditions and the plan, all that is left is the exicution.

Bottom line: People need to stand-up take responisiblty for their actions. Like anything in life, you cannot commit halfway......

 

[mirrocraft]

wow thats what wrong with today people everyone is always trying to point the finger at the other guy no one put his gear on his back and kicked him in the water if i went in a cave and died tomorrow it would me my own fault not my gear or the comp. that made it or my inst.. that trained me

 

[cdiver2]

I was cert. by PADI over 20 years ago, I also became a DM then an AI with them and help in the pool almost every week and attend the open water cert dives once a month. Not bragging, just some backup for my comments.



People need to accept responsablitly for thier actions, and have an understanding of what they are getting into. I have no problem telling people that there is little margin for error and they need to follow the rules, dive with-in thier ablity, and in conditions they can manage. If they chose not to, thier buddy needs to pack a body bag not a lift bag.
I know it sounds cruel, but .........

I know that I've been luck to be able to dive with a group that continues to refine thier skills on every dive, take dive planning very seriosly, and still to this day debrief after every dive and review each other performance. Does this take the fun out of diving... no way, by understanding the conditions and the plan, all that is left is the exicution.

Bottom line: People need to stand-up take responisiblty for their actions. Like anything in life, you cannot commit halfway......

From what I've seen most people have no idea of the risks relating to diving, and when you try to discuss them as an adult most people believe it will not happen to them.
I've seen people not read any of the material, not watch the video, and still expect to be hand feed the information each week in class.

And yet they are still given there cert card ! ?

 

[Zeeman]

Typical - Noone wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore...

TOM

Yup, exactly. I'm hardly going to claim PADI has the best training program in the world, but I was given the information I needed to do the dives I was certified for in the appropriate courses I did with them.

I was taught how to use the tables, warned about alcohol, warned about ascent rates, warned about various conditions... It's MY job to make sure I know all these things.

We are still evolving, so, it's pretty fair to say Darwin is going to keep claiming some of us as time goes on..

z...

 

[JahJahwarrior]

As a new diver, I was originally planning to get my OW cert, then take the AOW class a few weeks later. I wanted to dive nitrox (I have a friend who dives nitrox) and they were offering that, rolled into an AOW class, something like two weeks after I got my cert for OW. Turns out, my parents decided they didn't want to pay for it (classes were a birthday present). Looking back on it, I'd much rather use that money to go diving with. I don't need and AOW card to say that I'm a good diver, I need to show that I'm still alive after, say, 500 dives. I don't think I can get rescue diver cert before I get AOW, but I'd rather have rescue cert. than AOW.

As an aside, I took the PADI textbook home to learn for my OW cert. Had to asnwer some qustion and take the test and go to the dives and I was certified. The reading was easy, I highlighted all over the place in that book!! I read most of it twice. At the first pool dive, the two girls that took the class at the shop were all like "oh, we'll have to show you how to set your gear up" At that point, I had alrady taken and passed the final exam. I had my gear setup twice as fast as they did. (this was a trend that seemed to continue throughout all of our dives) I felt I was much better prepared for everything (except that adrenaline rush that comes when you realize you can breathe underwater) because I had already read the book, taken the tests, watched the videos and everything before ever getting inthe water. The instructor was pretty good about going over the stuff I missed on the quizzes, he'd explain it and made sure I understood it better. I explained a few things to him too (he had gotten the whole displaces more water than it weighs then it's positively bouyant thing backwards)

The education PADI gave me was ok. Because I studied everything better on my own, I feel I got better than if I had just done waht PADI recquired. The evidence of this was my dive experience compared to the other students, who just showed up and did bare minimums. I was in the water faster, packed up faster. My gear was cleaner at the end of a dive (no silt on everything). I did not have problems with regs freeflowing, masks flooding, or underwater navigating. I never panicked underwater and headed for the surface. (perfect example of a panicked diver: spit out reg at 10 feet down on a line, headed for surface, MOF.....instructor had myself and the other girl chill and explore while he worked with the other girl. Anyways, I feel PADI does an ok job, but if you want to be really good you have to take your education into your own hands.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Thinking to myself, "resist the temptation, resist the tempation" The temptation is growing stronger, I can't resist much longer I'm holding out as long as I can. Can't resist much longer. Oh what the heck---Are you a slow learner

Just kidding SB but it was such a good set up as my wife would say.

BTW I trust you are back to diving after your surgery not long ago.

It was definitely a slow pitch over the plate.
Not a slow learner--it's just that things tend to get covered a bit more in-depth in a university course since you have all semester.
Doing well, thanks for asking! In fact I was in the water at a local quarry yesterday, although this time of year it's only good for low vis training due to algae blooms. :shakehead Oh well, I suppose you need some of that every now that then...

 

[Tanker299]

Bottom line: People need to stand-up take responisiblty for their actions. Like anything in life, you cannot commit halfway......

Amen Brother !

Whether PADI, NAUI or any other agency, what some folks don't get is "Dude, you are going UNDER WATER" This is dangerous stuff. A certifying agency can only take you some of the way there, they can not possibly cover every situation you may confront in your diving life. :no
What they certainly can NOT cover is your own lack of judgment and how to react to that. That's your own business to address. If you decided to go on a drinking binge the night before, become dehydrated, be physically unfit, man, that's you, not PADI, not NAUI, not anyone else's fault.
This may be a tad harsh but if someone goes and meets his/her maker under these conditions, may he/she rest in peace, but folks, that wasn't the training agency's fault ...

My 2 pesos.

 

[Jamie_r]

When I took my OW class, the first thing i wanted to do was get advanced as soon as I was certified. Till i hit the pool. then i realized that not even swimming or bouyancy control is as easy as it looks, and that its alot harder to think when your trying to remember so many things at once. So I didnet rush out and get my Advanced.

But there was a guy in my class that was sent through this course by a oil rig company. Training him as a rescue diver. He was a great guy but he just didnet get it. the next weekend after the OW was completled he said his employer was sending him straight to Avanced OW and then to rescue.
Man.

Anyway Since I realized i wasnet ready for advanced yet I thought there really should be a min. number of dives in a certin time frame before you can qualify to take this course. theres so many people ive meet that I dont dive with because I dont trust them that are advanced. Gahhhhhhh