Buddies kept grabbing/pulling me to ascend faster than computer said was safe

[AJ]

There's just a few things I can say: a) find better buddies, b) find buddies you feel you can trust. Don't bother with wth they say, but feel if you are comfortable with them diving and c) last, but certainly not least: plan your dive, and dive your plan. If a buddy want's to change the plan underwater, that's his/her problem. Know the plan and dive accordingly.

If I were going to dive with you I would put you in the lead and check regurlary if you were doing OK and being comfortable. That way I would be certain I would not put any stress on you. Only in a real emergency I would pull you up. Not when things don't go as planned, that's what contingency plans are for. As far as 30 years experience goes, ask them next time if they really have 30 years experience or 30 times their first year experience. It makes a whole lot of difference and an really experienced diver can and will show you what his/her experience is based on.

I feel everbody has confirmed in some way this should not have happened like this. But look at the positive side too: you have gained a lot of experience during and after this dive ;-)

 

[alewar]

can you post the profile downloaded from your computer?

 

[chrisch]

I really appreciate everyone's input. I would like to add that it was never mentioned on the surface that they were afraid I was running out of air. In fact, the additional diver said that I was just going too slow and at 90 feet (computer says avg of 67) for only 15 minutes a safety stop is unnecessary. He was the one who said computers can malfunction and he always ascends by time. But hearing y'alls calculations, there is no way he was doing it 30 ft/min. And my buddy said that I was just ascending too slow and didn't need to take that long. How would I pull the dive information off my computer?

I don't think you need to get the data off your computer. The ascent rate for the last part of the dive should be slow. I have never heard of "too" slow. Computers can malfunction - that is true - however if all it wanted was you to slow up why not slow up? If you ascend too fast the computer would penalise you on the next dive.

I am very tempted to agree with the poster who said to pull the idiot's mask off. However, that would make you as bad as them. The final part of the ascent should ideally be at 20ft/minute. A safety stop is a good idea any time. It is a safety stop though and if you are low on gas you can miss it out. The decision is based on your judgement of your gas.

Based on what you have posted I think you were unlucky and just ended up with some rather stupid people to dive with. Please don't let it put you off. And well done for posting it up on here.

 

[tkdgodess]

There is a very clear hand signal you should have used. Followed with, me Ok ,you problem, ascend ok. (Big head nod, direct eye contact) i didn't read the whole thread, but clear hand signs show you are under control. If there was not much communication going on, your buddy made have thought you were narked or stupid so he was trying to dive for you. Nice clear hand signs..... Pulling away and pointing at you computer doesnt tell a buddy much. He shouldn't have manhandled you either.

 

[doctormike]

FPM sounds more correct.

Whoops! Thanks...

 

[Lorenzoid]

If you really are as new to diving as your profile indicates ("0-24" dives), I think you are doing very well in both how you handle yourself on a dive and your understanding of things. It sounds like your buddy has gotten complacent/overconfident and may become a victim of his own extensive experience.

 

[Kharon]

Someone did that to me they would be looking at one or both of my dive knifes. If they still didn't back off they wouldn't surface. NO ONE under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should force an ascent on a concious diver. In fact no one should touch another diver or another divers gear unless requested to. This is another reason why I dive almost exclusively solo. People are effing idiots and are seriously dangerous.

 

[nimoh]

Someone did that to me they would be looking at one or both of my dive knifes. If they still didn't back off they wouldn't surface. NO ONE under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should force an ascent on a concious diver. In fact no one should touch another diver or another divers gear unless requested to. This is another reason why I dive almost exclusively solo. People are effing idiots and are seriously dangerous.

Well, if your response to someone grabbing your arm is to kill them, then we are all glad you dive exclusively solo.

 

[Crowley]

There are plenty of 'advanced' divers who think they know absolutely everything there is to know and these sound like just the sort - the fact that he says "computers fail so he doesn't use them" is proof in itself. They do fail, however it's very rare. When people argue about computer makes and models and what is safe or conservative or whatever I simply point out the fact that although there are differences - Suunto, Uwatec, Oceanic and the like have invested a whole lot of time and money into their decompression algorithms and it's safe to say that the know-it-alls haven't.

It is theoretically possible to ascend too slowly, but in doing so a diver would run out of air and probably succumb to exposure even in warm tropical water so we can safely ignore that, and breaking computer limits does not necessarily mean you have endangered yourself because computer ascent rates vary and are, in general, much slower than the 18m/60ft per minute as recommended on the recreational dive table. It is wise, however, to stay well with their limits in terms of depth, no deco time and ascent rate because as I mentioned, a group of brainiacs has invested a lot of time and money into the research behind them, and practically speaking, breaking those limits can seriously impact the dive time they will allow you on repetitive dives.

With regards to your air supply - boulderjohn mentioned this and I agree that it *is* rapid, but you can work on that - and he is correct in speculating that some divers may have seen this as a problem and want to get you out of the water more rapidly because they are worried you will run out of air. In this case, however, any decent diver should have given you appropriate signals, ascended and made a safety stop together with you whilst monitoring available computers and air supplies, prepped his/her alternate air source as required, and ascended safely to the surface. The only excuse for yanking somebody to the surface would be in an emergency situation.

Advice that an inexperienced diver should listen to experienced divers is sound and valid, but again, a decent, experienced diver would sit down with you afterwards, explain in a calm and reasonable tone what the problem was, what could have been done better, and then offer sound advice as to how you might improve on a particular technique, or prevent a problem from happening again. No so-called "advanced" diver would just tell you that you should listen to them because everything they say is correct because they have more dives. Like other commentators - I've seen people who've been diving for years, and my first thought on encountering them in the water is: "how have you survived this long"!

One chain of thought that does seem consistent, however, is: find different buddies. I agree.

Cheers

 

[chrisch]

.....With regards to your air supply - boulderjohn mentioned this and I agree that it *is* rapid, but you can work on that - and he is correct in speculating that some divers may have seen this as a problem and want to get you out of the water more rapidly because they are worried you will run out of air. In this case, however, any decent diver should have given you appropriate signals, ascended and made a safety stop together with you whilst monitoring available computers and air supplies, prepped his/her alternate air source as required, and ascended safely to the surface. The only excuse for yanking somebody to the surface would be in an emergency situation.....

Agreed. The best course of action, IMHO, if you are with a buddy low on gas at the safety stop is to donate to them (assuming you have lots of gas). Share gas on the safety stop then return the diver to their own gas supply for the final 10 feet of the ascent and for them to have gas on the surface for the BC and to breathe if there is a swell whilst waiting for the boat. Panicking a person into surfacing is going to increase their gas consumption and in the worst case they will get confused and may forget to inflate the BC on the surface. They might get a bit claustrophobic and want to get the regulator out of their mouth too soon, stuff the mask on their head and possibly if you combine all that with an uninflated BC they could be in bother and start to sink again (a lot of newbie divers are over weighted).