Buddy diving beyond training

[IwakuniDiver]

Ever since I first recieved my open water card I have always been a staunch member of the never dive beyond your training level and comfort level camp.

Unfortunately here on a military base with thousands of young, marines here, every class there is one or two that after receipt of their C-card, they think they're ready for anything. I've had students ask me when I was going to take them on wreck dives before their open water dive.

To echo what everyone else is saying I'm going to reiterate that it's ultimately up to you. It's pretty obvious you have doubts about this persons decision making ability underwater and that's a pretty severe concern to have about a dive buddy. Personally, I would remind him that if he wants to be super-tech-diver, that's up to him, but when he's diving with you, he needs to tone it down concentrate on being a good buddy or you won't dive with him anymore. That simple.

Scott

 

[tstormdiver]

Very well put, thank you.

 

[Davetul]

Plenty of diving occurred prior to the establishment of certifications and the various diving agencies that 'certify' us to dive. If the information is out there, and someone wants to use it, why not? Just because someone doesn't have a card that says they have been to some overpriced class and purchased the overpriced materials doesn't mean they haven't learned the information. Just as someone who has a pocketful of C cards doesn't necessarily know anything useful. To automatically write someone off as unqualified just because there's no classroom or outgoing money is a little extreme.

 

[adza]

I have to agree with H2Andy in the sence that this is not a buddy

Forget the qualifications for a second. From my understanding - a buddy pair should only dive to the levels that do not exceed the most inexperienced diver.

Even though he is comfortable with those sorts of levels (qualification aside for a moment), you aren't! You need a budy that will not ask you to go beyond your limits.

In other words - it wouldn't matter if you were diving with him - (self trained and unqualified), or if you were diving with a Penetration diver with all the training in the world. In either situation - you would not go beyond your own limits, regardless of how much more advanced they are.

If a budy isn't willing to respect your conserns (training aside) - then they're not a buddy. The fact that he sounds to be ignorant only adds danger to the situation, but it's his attitude in trying to force you to levels you're not comfortable with that's my primary concern.

So - to answer your question, I believe that this sort of situation is a little more common than what is perceived. (Diver 'A' wanting to push a less advanced diver (diver 'B') beyond their limits because diver 'A' wants to go further). IMO - any person with this attitude is a greatly increased unwanted risk.

As far as I see it, the fact that he's not qualified for the diving he wants to do may possibly just compounds an already existing problem. Qualified or not - he sounds like a bad buddy.

Cheers

Adza

 

[Dive-aholic]

One of the rules in cave diving is to always dive to the qualifications of the weakest or less qualified team member. That means if a full cave certified diver is diving with an intro level diver, then the dive is an intro level dive and the intro level diver leads the dive. If your buddy isn't willing to dive to your comfort level and your qualifications, then you shouldn't be diving with him. When he calls, tell him how it is. In fact, send him over to this thread and let him read what everyone is posting. He may not agree, but he may understand better why you refuse to dive with him anymore.

 

[tstormdiver]

I might do that. Thanks all.

 

[Walter]

When he's your buddy, he should stick to the plan. OTOH, when he's not your buddy, his actions are none of your business. What are "the proper channels" and how did they become so? They became what you consider "the proper channels" because somebody started an agency and started teaching what they had learned on their own, just like your friend, but probably with fewer resources to go on.

 

[jpcpat]

Your "buddy" may or may not be qualified for the things he wants to do. If you are worried about him dragging you into things you don't feel qualified for, don't dive with him. "Trust me dives" are very bad karma.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Hey Tammy. My concern is not what he does on his own time. That's his business and the business of those he's diving with. However, when he's your buddy, he should be your buddy. If both buddies are not comfortable doing something maybe due to depth, conditions, penetration of a wreck, whatever ... if both aren't comfortable, the team shouldn't do it.

If one member of a buddy team thumbs a dive, the dive's over. Period. No if, ands or buts. You head to the surface, together. If he can't abide by those rules, he's not a buddy and I wouldn't dive with him.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

One of the rules in cave diving is to always dive to the qualifications of the weakest or less qualified team member. That means if a full cave certified diver is diving with an intro level diver, then the dive is an intro level dive and the intro level diver leads the dive. If your buddy isn't willing to dive to your comfort level and your qualifications, then you shouldn't be diving with him.

I agree with this part ...

When he calls, tell him how it is. In fact, send him over to this thread and let him read what everyone is posting. He may not agree, but he may understand better why you refuse to dive with him anymore.

It's been my experience that the vast majority of people who choose to dive beyond their capabilities have already rationalized why it's OK to do so ... and nothing anyone can tell them will change their mind.

The best course of action with these people is just to stay away from them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)