Not as advanced as the one's noted above, but my Zeagle Scout came with bungees. (http://zeagle.com/bc2001_scout.htm) I've only been diving a year and I've done 36 dives with it. I always had problems with bouyancy problems at the end of the dive and on my safety stops. When I did my AOW last month, my instructor spotted that air was getting trapped and the BC was acting like a balloon catching my bubbles in the pockets created by the bungees when my BC was completely deflated. We took the bungees off and I had perfect safety stops and much smoother descent too. The bungees are staying off.
Bungees????
- Thread starter Curly
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
As an owner of an OMS pack I'll ring in here.
NetDoc had a wing get punctured at depth. It did not auto deflate. He said the wing performed just fine.
Entanglement. Those bungies are tight to the wing. It takes effort to get something under them. The bungies on the Dive rite wings and the Ranger are not as tight as the OMS.
This is a contentious issue that has been debated at length on this board. There are two primary positions. Both sides make claims the other will request proof.
TwoBit
NetDoc had a wing get punctured at depth. It did not auto deflate. He said the wing performed just fine.
Entanglement. Those bungies are tight to the wing. It takes effort to get something under them. The bungies on the Dive rite wings and the Ranger are not as tight as the OMS.
This is a contentious issue that has been debated at length on this board. There are two primary positions. Both sides make claims the other will request proof.
TwoBit
WillAbbott
Guest
Well, not as experienced a diver as others here, but I will try and play a little of "devils advocate" as well as both side...
First I don't like the idea of the "bondage wings" aka "bungee wings o death"
The idea is of course, to minimize drage EVEN more by keeping the wing as small as what is needed to hold the air inside. Also to minimize "bubble shift" inside the wings as you change attitude.
That being said, the disadvantages are the possible snag hazard (not sure how likely), the squeeze on the bag, pushing air out if it is ruptured (agree it depends on how tight the bands are on how big a problem this would be)... According to George Irvine there is another issue I don't agree with 100%, he states you can't orally inflate it as easily (in the DIR3 video) due to the fact that the outside pressure of the water is squeezing the wing, and the bungees, and you are already fighting against the pressure of the water to inflate them, then add the bands, and your waiting to rupture a lung... The problem I see with this is (and he probably just goofed in what he said, it happens) is that the purpose of the regulator is to deliver air at the same pressure as the water, so your lungs contain the same pressure air, in which case you wouldn't be fighting the water pressure, only the band pressure... where if the bands were too tight, yeah oral inflation might be hard... again a config issue.
My biggest thing with them is that the seem to be a solution to a non-existent problem. My 36lbs wing doesn't have an excess drag problem when deflated, nor a noticable "bubble shift" so the bands solve problems I have never had or noticed. There are guys who like them, and equally as many if not more guys who don't like them.
Possibly the BEST reason I could see having them (and I wouldn't buy them for this purpose) is if you were cheap and wanted a wing large enough for doubles, but that could work for a single tank without having excees drag, or the wings "flapping in the breeze" in which case they probably work well for that... But is it really a good idea to use a wing large enough for doubles with a single tank, just because you are cheap? Thats a personal preference.
Ok, enough from me, I'm by far one of the less knowlegable guys here, I just thought I'd try and show both sides, as unbiased as possible, and play devils advocate some... hope I did a good job at the unbiasedness?
First I don't like the idea of the "bondage wings" aka "bungee wings o death"
The idea is of course, to minimize drage EVEN more by keeping the wing as small as what is needed to hold the air inside. Also to minimize "bubble shift" inside the wings as you change attitude.
That being said, the disadvantages are the possible snag hazard (not sure how likely), the squeeze on the bag, pushing air out if it is ruptured (agree it depends on how tight the bands are on how big a problem this would be)... According to George Irvine there is another issue I don't agree with 100%, he states you can't orally inflate it as easily (in the DIR3 video) due to the fact that the outside pressure of the water is squeezing the wing, and the bungees, and you are already fighting against the pressure of the water to inflate them, then add the bands, and your waiting to rupture a lung... The problem I see with this is (and he probably just goofed in what he said, it happens) is that the purpose of the regulator is to deliver air at the same pressure as the water, so your lungs contain the same pressure air, in which case you wouldn't be fighting the water pressure, only the band pressure... where if the bands were too tight, yeah oral inflation might be hard... again a config issue.
My biggest thing with them is that the seem to be a solution to a non-existent problem. My 36lbs wing doesn't have an excess drag problem when deflated, nor a noticable "bubble shift" so the bands solve problems I have never had or noticed. There are guys who like them, and equally as many if not more guys who don't like them.
Possibly the BEST reason I could see having them (and I wouldn't buy them for this purpose) is if you were cheap and wanted a wing large enough for doubles, but that could work for a single tank without having excees drag, or the wings "flapping in the breeze" in which case they probably work well for that... But is it really a good idea to use a wing large enough for doubles with a single tank, just because you are cheap? Thats a personal preference.
Ok, enough from me, I'm by far one of the less knowlegable guys here, I just thought I'd try and show both sides, as unbiased as possible, and play devils advocate some... hope I did a good job at the unbiasedness?
Ziggys_Friend
Guest
Ah yes, affectionately know as "bondage wings" or the even more language un-loaded "bungee wings o death."
Now of course I wouldn't have an opinion, but if you'd like the official DIR party line ...
"Certain BC designs can actually complicate the problem of proper trim. For example, BC's with restrictive bungies appear to promote gas trapping and increased drag by generating turbulent flow around the diver. Trapped gas pockets can imbalance the diver with unequal pockets of lift."
"The gas-trapping characteristics of some BCs make achieving proper trim more difficult, as well as increasing drag. "
~<//><
P.S. As you can tell, we like'm a LOT! :boom:
Now of course I wouldn't have an opinion, but if you'd like the official DIR party line ...
"Certain BC designs can actually complicate the problem of proper trim. For example, BC's with restrictive bungies appear to promote gas trapping and increased drag by generating turbulent flow around the diver. Trapped gas pockets can imbalance the diver with unequal pockets of lift."
"The gas-trapping characteristics of some BCs make achieving proper trim more difficult, as well as increasing drag. "
~<//><
P.S. As you can tell, we like'm a LOT! :boom:
ScoobieDooo
Guest
jiveturkey,
I and several friends of mine dive them and like them a lot. Never had a problem, and contrary to what you hear, no one has actually died from using them.
Know the saying "Opinons are like..."
I and several friends of mine dive them and like them a lot. Never had a problem, and contrary to what you hear, no one has actually died from using them.
Know the saying "Opinons are like..."
divegary
Guest
I use to dive a Zeagle and the thing trapped air at the end of a dive, it was due to the bladder side without the dump valve rolling over inside the wing and trapping air. If the twist was a half turn air would come out of it slowly, a 360 degree roll of the bladdder and it was like a balloon on one side of the bc. Got the bc for sale. Went to a backplate and bladder in 2000, would not dive any other way.
ut:I have numerous dives on my OMS banded wing and have never experienced any of the mentioned problems. It works great, I like it and that's all that matters to me.
JeffG
Contributor
ColdH20diving once bubbled...
I have numerous dives on my OMS banded wing and have never experienced any of the mentioned problems. It works great, I like it and that's all that matters to me.
Has the Wing failed on you? (ie had a leak)
The DIR argument against bondage wings deals with their behavior when they fail. If it has never failed on you, you wouldn't "see" the issues.
JeffG
Contributor
Now I am not saying which wing to use (or not use), but whatever equipment you have, you need to understand what responses are required for your equipment.
Or another way of thinking about it, the winds bands are "a" solution to a problem (ie air trapping), where the cost is potential "air loss" when the bc/wing fails.
Is the trade off worth it?
Are there other ways to solve the problem?
What "price" do the other solutions have?
Understand you equipment.....Dive it....be happy
Ziggys_Friend
Guest
FYI, but, what I wrote before is directly quoted from JJ's book considered by GUE the DIR-F "textbook." The only reference to Bondage Wings is listed under TRIM and states:
"Certain BC designs can actually complicate the problem of proper trim. For example, BC's with restrictive bungies appear to promote gas trapping and increased drag by generating turbulent flow around the diver. Trapped gas pockets can imbalance the diver with unequal pockets of lift."
Also, by a picture is the quote:
"The gas-trapping characteristics of some BCs make achieving proper trim more difficult, as well as increasing drag. "
Now I'm not saying that individual divers haven't commented about their characteristics if/when they fail, but I've never heard that and again, I didn't see it in JJ's book.
~<//><
Similar threads
