Can an OW instructor deny referral?

[Crowley]

I've checked through the PADI OW manual section about Referrals (p 1-12 to 1-16 in this year's version) and it does not suggest there is any requirement to submit a referral, nor are there guidlines for *not* referring students... the summary is this:

"You may refer a PADI Open Water Diver course student who has completed any Knowledge Development session, Confined Water Dive or Open Water Dive to a PADI Instructor in another location to complete certification requirements."

The question of why a diver might not be referred doesn't even crop up - I would imagine that PADI assume no instructor would be so curmudgeonly as to *not* refer a student, even if it meant losing a cert. (You can still get credit as ther referring instructor though - 2 referrals = 1 cert.)

Okay I know this is slightly off the OP but since jenth is waiting on NAUI, Thalassamania raises an interesting point. Perhaps a NAUI instructor might help us out?

Safe diving,

C.

 

[Walter]

I don't believe any instructor can be required to give a referral.

When Nancy was getting certified through NAUI, we were not impressed by her instructor. After her first two check out dives, I introduced her to a NAUI Instructor friend of mine on the other coast. He took her in the pool to bring her up to speed, she improved dramatically. She wanted him to finish her checkout dives and he was agreeable. Her original instructor refused to give her a referral. My friend contacted her original instructor. The original instructor agreed to give her a referral if he could keep the certification. The original instructor certified her, but my friend finished the checkout dives.

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

I've checked through the PADI OW manual section about Referrals (p 1-12 to 1-16 in this year's version) and it does not suggest there is any requirement to submit a referral, nor are there guidlines for *not* referring students... the summary is this:

"You may refer a PADI Open Water Diver course student who has completed any Knowledge Development session, Confined Water Dive or Open Water Dive to a PADI Instructor in another location to complete certification requirements."

The question of why a diver might not be referred doesn't even crop up - I would imagine that PADI assume no instructor would be so curmudgeonly as to *not* refer a student, even if it meant losing a cert. (You can still get credit as ther referring instructor though - 2 referrals = 1 cert.)

Okay I know this is slightly off the OP but since jenth is waiting on NAUI, Thalassamania raises an interesting point. Perhaps a NAUI instructor might help us out?

Safe diving,

C.

In the General Standards & Procedures of the PADI instructor manual there is a section concerning referals in general and which courses you can issue them for. There is a section in bold (so a standard), that states " Do not withhold a referral as a means of settling personal disputes". This is open to interpretation of course, but my read is that you are required to provide a referral if requested.

 

[jenth]

hmm...So maybe I can employ the help of the NAUI instructor willing to take me to the ocean. Maybe if he talks to my current instructor he can better convince him to allow the referral.

From what I understand now, I guess weather could've been a sort of excuse for him not to take us out. We could've gone to Catalina or somewhere to complete the class. I just spoke to one of his old students and apparently he also had a similar issue where the end of the class just kept dragging and dragging. Had I known...

Seems like there's nothing definitive forcing him to allow the referral. I would hope that there is...especially since it's my money paying for the class! Still waiting to hear back from NAUI. Will post any findings as soon as I hear back!

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions!

 

[Bob]

To my knowledge there is no requirement for a NAUI Instructor to give a referral simply because the student requests one. OTOH, I have never heard of any Instructor having a student sign a form stating they must complete all of their training with him. In this case, if I was satisfied with the academics, attitude toward diving and skills in the pool, I would grant her request for a referral, especially if she was becoming pressed for time as is the case here. almtree: Bob

 

[Walter]

" Do not withhold a referral as a means of settling personal disputes". This is open to interpretation of course, but my read is that you are required to provide a referral if requested.

If there is no dispute, the requirement wouldn't apply. If an instructor never grants referrals, the refusal to grant a referral could not be seen as being used to settle a dispute (assuming there was a dispute) and also would not apply. Of course, it wouldn't help the OP regardless of how it is read since it doesn't apply to NAUI in any case.

 

[BuoyantC]

Maybe just tell your instructor that this situation, his name, the shop's name, and their poor service will be posted and discussed on Scuba Board and other forums for as long as you can keep it going. Someone will see the logic in helping you out!

 

[jefffalcone]

This guy sounds like a jerk, but it is usually easier to go along with the jerk than fight him. I would just constantly hound him to schedule and complete the dives. If you have 2 weeks, two days of diving is not an unreasonable demand. I think that if you make yourself enough of a PITA he will get you certified before your trip.

 

[jenth]

This guy's an independent instructor, not associated with any LDS. So he responds to no one (except maybe the agencies?). As far as I know the "no referral" policy is a personal policy. I've been anonymous about who he is...because I'm still in the class and he actually is a good instructor. I decided to take the class with him because of other positive reviews of him on the boards. Other than this, I really haven't had too much to complain about. He's a very thorough instructor...just a bit of ego, perhaps. I'll make a fair assessment and review of him once this is all over.

In the General Standards & Procedures of the PADI instructor manual there is a section concerning referals in general and which courses you can issue them for. There is a section in bold (so a standard), that states " Do not withhold a referral as a means of settling personal disputes". This is open to interpretation of course, but my read is that you are required to provide a referral if requested.

So there's a bit of gray area in the PADI interpretation as well. I think it'd be more of an ego thing than a personal dispute issue. In any case, maybe something more formal about referrals should be written up in the policies to avoid future situations like this!

 

[Thalassamania]

I will try to help, but I sympathize with his general position concerning referrals.