Can an OW instructor deny referral?

[Riger]

Just thinking out of the box here ....

If you are confident in your theory and skills, could you consider going to a different instructor (and maybe even agency) anyway, have a full knowledge review and skills test in a single day (you have done it all already) and getting in the ocean with them?

I know this will cost you money, but it may be an opportunity for you to get it done?

Best Regards

Richard

 

[jefffalcone]

I will try to help, but I sympathize with his general position concerning referrals.

Honestly, with some of the crap that goes on at resorts, I don't really blame the guy for having this as a general policy either.

I did a referal, I had an excellent instructor, and then I went to mexico. My first check out dive was counted as my first 2 dives, and then on my second 2 dives, there wasn't even an instructor on the boat.

2 Weeks later I got my AOW in Belize w/o ever diving with an instructor. Fortunately I am pretty natural in the water and I moved on to some instruction with GUE.

The reason I think he's being a jerk is the excessive amount of time that he has in which he has been unable to complete your training, and his unwillingness to make an exception.

 

[elan]

With PADI ww were not requesting any referrals. The school has just completed that part of the log book that we were doing there (the confined dives and theory for my wife) We made our checkout dives at another place and we has not taken any papers other than the logbooks. I actually completed my OW in 3 steps - theory through eLearning, confined with my LDS and checkouts with a school in Florida

 

[jenth]

If you are confident in your theory and skills, could you consider going to a different instructor (and maybe even agency) anyway, have a full knowledge review and skills test in a single day (you have done it all already) and getting in the ocean with them?

I feel pretty confident in my skills (around 10 pool sessions with this instructor!). If it really came down to it, I'd consider it. Seems like most diving instructors are pretty reasonable, so wouldn't be too difficult to arrange. Thanks for the suggestion.

Honestly, with some of the crap that goes on at resorts, I don't really blame the guy for having this as a general policy either.

The reason I think he's being a jerk is the excessive amount of time that he has in which he has been unable to complete your training, and his unwillingness to make an exception.

I fully believe in properly training a student and doing what you can to ensure proper training. And I've heard of stories where students are rushed or where it was more about the money. Thankfully, neither of these apply to my situation.

I have mentioned to him, though, that the other instructor is a highly trained tech diver (husband's diving buddy, so we obviously have great faith and trust in his skill). I even offered to have the old instructor contact the new. No use.

What I have difficulty understanding is...he's the one who said during the class "the best way to become a better diver is by diving" so I can't understand why he wouldn't want to just get us out the the ocean.

 

[Damselfish]

I can sort of understand the policy, if it is really because they are concerned about the quality of training (and sounds like they are.) But not if it's partly because of concerns over certification count (probably not the case here?) Or because this guy has trouble getting classes completed because of his schedule, which also seems like it could be a little bit true.

It's water over the dam at this point, but I don't think I would accept such a policy for an OW class. Even if you originally have no intention of doing a referral there are lots of reasons it could turn out to be a problem, case in point. And I do think given the whole situation the instructor is being kind of an inflexible jerk about it and should make an exception to their policy. (Not to mention, they think they are so wonderful that there is no no one else in the world qualified to finish the job? Yeah, I would say a bit of ego there.)

Personally, at this point I'd be tempted to out him.

 

[jefffalcone]

Personally, at this point I'd be tempted to out him.

Me too, but he still has time to make things right. Outing him at this point wouldn't be right. He has 2 weeks to get her certified, and he could still decide to be reasonable if he doesn't get it done.

Maybe getting him to read the thread might help him to see the light.

 

[Riger]

Me too, but he still has time to make things right. Outing him at this point wouldn't be right. He has 2 weeks to get her certified, and he could still decide to be reasonable if he doesn't get it done.

Maybe getting him to read the thread might help him to see the light.

However if he does not get it done in time, the OP is left with arrangements that have been made that could then not be met.

Best Regards

Richard

 

[Divenomad]

From my NAUI standards manual, page 2.14 (rev1-01):

"The certifying instructor who cannot conduct any required open water dive is obliged to ensure another active status NAUI instructor conducts the dive or utilize the Universal Referral Program requirements".

here is some information on the Universal Referral Program.

Universal Referral Program

From NAUI's website, scroll down for the relevant info.:

https://www.naui.org/faq.aspx#150

You will note that NAUI is a member, and ALL members are obliged to participate in the program. PADI for it's own reasons, does not require their instructors to do so, but offers them the option to do so.

Your instructor may have some concerns about "claiming" the certification, however, it does not seem to me that he can say "No" as it would be a violation as long as your checkouts are done with referral member.

In the interest of full disclosure, I do not have the latest NAUI standards, however the info is on NAUI's current website...

Hope this helps

Nomad

 

[Damselfish]

hmm, the problem there is, what is the definition of "cannot conduct?" Betcha it's going to be different to the two parties here..."in a timely fashion" vs. "sometime in the next year, maybe."


sure, there's 2 weeks left, but little assurance it's going to happen in that time, so now is a good time to push this, not later. If this guy can't do this and won't let a presumably well qualified local instructor do it, they're probably not going to do a referral so this person could at least finish on their trip.

Occurs to me, if the OP got certified now, they'd have time to get in a couple more practice dives before their trip, which is always a good thing. Gosh, doesn't this wonderful instructor think that would be good too? This instructor is really not dealing in good faith. They may think they are, but it's in their own little world.

 

[Divenomad]

No doubt, but it seems to me if the conditions do not permit diving you "cannot conduct" the dive. If you have a schedule conflict with work or whatever, you "cannot conduct" the dives.

No trying to be argumentative, but you know, I have a feeling a simple call to NAUI, will solve this problem. I find this thing sort of annoying, because it's a simple customer service issue, with a framework within the industry designed to solve it. IMO, things like this should not be a problem.OH, well. I guess we'll find out how it plays out.

Nomad