Completed OW today

[Jim Lapenta]

4 checkout dives in one day is blatantly against standards for SDI, SEI, PADI, NAUI, and CMAS according to the current standards I have. I would not train with any operation or instructor that is so willing to violate those. That they give you the option to come back and do more dives the next day is not an out for them.

 

[Hawkwood]

stuartv,

Just remember that the criticisms and comments are being made against your Instructor, not you.

Good job on the OW.

 

[stuartv]

stuartv,

Just remember that the criticisms and comments are being made against your Instructor, not you.

Good job on the OW.

Thanks. And I do understand where the criticism is directed.

And to respond to those critics, I do want to say that the bottom line for me is that I don't believe I would learn any more or end up any better of a diver if I had to go back to that quarry again today. So, I am definitely glad I don't have to.

 

[tomfcrist]

What quarry were you at? Which dive center?

 

[SeaHorse81]

This is a pretty significant violation in my mind. Having an OW student do FOUR dives in a day - in cold water no less - presents multiple safety issues.

To OP, congratulations on your cert, but as you're hearing, you didn't get it in optimal form. Because of your lack of experience, the safety violations may not feel that pressing for you. What you might be able to appreciate in any event, however, is how this accelerated schedule would likely detract from your ability to retain what you were shown and what you practiced.

First, you were in cold water and you're not used to multiple dives at all, so I'd have to think you were quite tired by the end of the day. Tired brains can't retain nearly as much as well-rested ones. There are undoubtedly parts of the experience you won't remember at all, and others that you remember, but inadequately.

Second, the brain can only take in so much new information at once. After that, it's like the saturated sponge that won't absorb any more water no matter how long you keep pouring more on. You must have run through a ton of different drills in rapid succession, not having enough time to process what you'd done before the next one was coming at you. The brain has no choice but to abandon the half-learned thing it was still working on in favor of the new thing that's in front of it right now. The previous item never gets fully processed. Then the second item gets abandoned partway through processing in favor of the third that has now arrived, and so on.

Any of us have to do LOTS of review and practice after OW in order to really internalize the information and develop the muscle memory that results in actual knowledge and skill. I suspect you'll need it even more, because too much went by you too fast, and in conditions that would only make it harder to keep up.

 

[RJP]

Thanks. And I do understand where the criticism is directed.

And to respond to those critics, I do want to say that the bottom line for me is that I don't believe I would learn any more or end up any better of a diver if I had to go back to that quarry again today. So, I am definitely glad I don't have to.

I'm sure you are glad that you were allowed to do four dives in one day. And you probably would have thought it was cool if your instructor took you down to 100ft... or into a cave... or did just a little bit of deco on one of the dives. And my 10yr old son would be glad if I let him have chocolate cake and candy for dinner and stay up until midnight.

However, it's an instructors job - just as a parent - to protect the best interests and well-being of those entrusted to our care. The fact that those people lack the appropriate frame of reference to understand the basis for what constitutes good judgement doesn't make it acceptable to exercise bad judgement... or willful negligence in this case.

Frankly, the bigger issue here is that what you have obviously taken away from this incident is that it's OK to disregard established standards and exercise bad judgement while scuba diving. That's not a good way to start out...

 

[stuartv]

What quarry were you at? Which dive center?

I really did not and do not want this thread to turn into a shop-bashing thread. I liked all the shop employees and instructors and I will probably be doing more business and taking more classes there. So, I'm going to leave all the names out of this thread. I really don't want to get them in trouble. One, they would almost surely know someone in our group ratted on them. And, two, they had a special extra pool session for one of the guys in my class who struggled in the pool last weekend. Plus, having the extra session for the girl yesterday who couldn't continue because of the cold.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think that the head instructor (a crusty old salt, I reckon) had good enough judgment to evaluate us and decide that we really did merit being able to complete the dives and get our C cards in one day.

This thread is just for me to crow about getting my certification. :-D

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2014 at 11:20 AM ----------

To OP, congratulations on your cert

First, you were in cold water and you're not used to multiple dives at all, so I'd have to think you were quite tired by the end of the day.

Second, the brain can only take in so much new information at once.

Thanks!

People here on SB sure do seem to be fond of making assumptions about other people. And talk down to them, too.

I wasn't tired at all. Nor was I cold. The water was cold but I was well equipped and very comfortable. I got a little chilly on the last dive because I knew it would be a short one so I chose to not wear the hood for that last one.

I would also say that it seems to me that it would be a failure of instruction if I got to the OW dives and was getting new information at that time. There was nothing new for me yesterday. It was all just doing all the same stuff I had already done - but in crappy water instead of a pool.

 

[TSandM]

The point is that the certifying agencies write standards for their classes so that students are not put at risk and are not shortchanged in their education. No matter what you think of what your instructor did, it was WRONG. Doing that many dives in a day raises the risk of hypothermia, fatigues students, makes mistakes more likely, and means the dives will be very minimal. Doing two days of diving gives the brain overnight to absorb the experience and the lessons, and results in better performance on the second day.

Standards exist for a reason. Shops which break them at will are saying something about their commitment to the program they ostensibly subscribe to.

 

[stuartv]

And my 10yr old son would be glad if I let him have chocolate cake and candy for dinner and stay up until midnight.

So new divers are automatically presumed to have no better judgment than a 10 year old boy. Okay....

 

[RJP]

So new divers are automatically presumed to have no better judgment than a 10 year old boy. Okay....

The point of the analogy is that a new diver does not have - nor should they be expected to have - sufficient context to understand what constitutes good or bad judgement in that given situation. That's the role of the instructor.

No one is "talking down to you" or presuming anything about you or your judgement. We're trying to inform you - out of an abundance of care for the sport and for other divers - that your instructor did you no favor and could have potentially done you and the other students harm. The fact that you don't have enough experience to agree with this is; a.) not your fault, and b.) immaterial.

I really did not and do not want this thread to turn into a shop-bashing thread. I liked all the shop employees and instructors and I will probably be doing more business and taking more classes there. So, I'm going to leave all the names out of this thread. I really don't want to get them in trouble. One, they would almost surely know someone in our group ratted on them. And, two, they had a special extra pool session for one of the guys in my class who struggled in the pool last weekend. Plus, having the extra session for the girl yesterday who couldn't continue because of the cold.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think that the head instructor (a crusty old salt, I reckon) had good enough judgment to evaluate us and decide that we really did merit being able to complete the dives and get our C cards in one day.

This thread is just for me to crow about getting my certification. :-D

I completely understand you not wanting to put them at risk... it's just a shame they didn't exercise the same duty of care towards you and the other students.

1. They did not offer that girl an EXTRA session... the SDI standards DEMAND that session at a minimum.
2. In fact, if the water was that cold the instructor already showed poor judgement in even conducting a THIRD dive yesterday.
3. There is no way for the instructor to have any basis to have "had good enough judgement" in conducting a fourth dive because by doing so he violated SDI standards, which is "bad judgement" by definition.

PS - welcome to the underwater world... and to ScubaBoard! Hopefully you'll stick with both long enough to get full enjoyment of everything they have to offer...