Computer or Not

[jpcpat]

Get the computer, already. Gear envy is usually irresistable in the long term.

Seriously, you get more bottom time with a computer than with the tables, besides tables are a PITA.

 

[meekal]

I've never used a computer in the past 18 years of diving, and haven't found a need to get one. ~ Jason

how's that horse collar working out for ya? hope it doesn't get in the way of your J-VALVE on your 2200PSI steel 72 tank! no worries... just make sure you're coming slower than your smallest bubble....

DARKPUP: don't take it personally....i'm just bustin' your chops. SCUBA is changing on a regular basis and a computer is just another 'tool' that makes it that much safer and more enjoyable. compared to the price of the rest of the equipment / trips / et al.... the price you pay for a dive computer is relatively small compared to the 'enjoyment' you'll get out of it (diving longer, safer and easier)

 

[BSea]

I use a computer, and bring an inexpensive puck computer on trips for a backup. I know how to do the calculations, but have you ever made a simple math error? Well the computer won't make those errors. Learn how to use the tables till you can do them in your sleep, and use that skill as your back-up. Besides, diving is supposed to be fun. A computer will help you enjoy your diving more, and give you more bottom time. And that means even more fun.

 

[darkpup]

how's that horse collar working out for ya? hope it doesn't get in the way of your J-VALVE on your 2200PSI steel 72 tank! no worries... just make sure you're coming slower than your smallest bubble....

DARKPUP: daon't take it seriously....i'm just bustin' your chops. SCUBA is changing on a regular basis and a computer is just another 'tool' that makes it that much safer and more enjoyable. compared to the price of the rest of the equipment / trips / et al.... the price you pay for a dive computer is relatively small compared to the 'enjoyment' you'll get out of it (diving longer, safer and easier)

Hehehe, now that's funny. I never thought I was the old guy at 34 years of age, but oh well.

Out of curiousity, what kind of bottom time are you getting out of your computer on a 100' dive? Air vs. Nitrox times if you prefer?

~ Jason

 

[meekal]

- my 'best' 103' FSW dive (34%) was for 51 minutes

http://piddlefish.servepics.com/SCUBA/2004-05-23-176-dryTorts-L-Tower.html

but then, i was only at >100' FSW for about 30 seconds and that was about 20 minutes after doing a 112 FSW (32%) dive to the Baja California for 40 minutes - but only about 15 minutes > 100; FSW and that's the beauty of dive computers - NO SQUARE DIVES FOR ME!

 

[H20Bubbles]

Nearly every dive we have done on our computers have been off the limits of the RDP. The computers make it so easy to see everything at a glance, and to be able to plan accordingly for the dive. Honestly, we can't imagine diving without them.

 

[darkpup]

- my 'best' 103' FSW dive (34%) was for 51 minutes

http://piddlefish.servepics.com/SCUBA/2004-05-23-176-dryTorts-L-Tower.html

but then, i was only at >100' FSW for about 30 seconds and that was about 20 minutes after doing a 112 FSW (32%) dive to the Baja California for 40 minutes - but only about 15 minutes > 100; FSW and that's the beauty of dive computers - NO SQARE DIVES FOR ME!

So is the reason for the longer bottom times in your opinion because of the depth averaging? Or are the longer bottom times a result of the computer being more flexible than the tables you're use to using?

The reason I ask is because if you're comparing the standard PADI tables to a computer (i.e. square profile vs. depth averaging), then I would agree with you. In that case, computers do give you longer bottom times, but you're comparing apples to oranges. As you know, the world of diving is always evolving, and there are better tables that make depth averaging quite simple. You just need to be open to some of the newer decompression models that take bubble mechanics into account (i.e. RGBM), and the tables those algorithms produce.

~ Jason

 

[darkpup]

Nearly every dive we have done on our computers have been off the limits of the RDP. The computers make it so easy to see everything at a glance, and to be able to plan accordingly for the dive.

I'm not entirely sure what "RDP" means. If you could help me out with that, I'd appreciate it.

Getting to your comments, all that means is that you're diving outside of the profile defined by the tables you're most likely referencing in your example. Every algorithm has its limitations, and anyone can bend a computer while staying within conservative limits.

For instance, some computers incorporate deep stops, and some don't. If you adjust your ascent profile to go outside of your computers range while staying within safe limits, you'll get penalized by your computer. This happens with my friends who use Suunto Vyper's when we add deep stops to our ascent profiles. The Vyper wants us to do X amount of time at 20' and 10', but we redistribute the time to deeper depths in the 50' to 30' range. The Vyper says we're bent, but newer RGBM algorithms say we're clean.

Who is right?

Honestly, we can't imagine diving without them.

It's odd, but I can't imagine diving with one. I bought my wife a Suunto Mosquito because she thought it would be cool, but it's collecting dust now because it was more trouble than it was worth. Having a computer tell you you're bent when you know you're not is frustrating.

The only reason I see for getting one is because they're cool. I'm a software engineer by trade, so my inner geek is always telling me to get one. I just can't see putting off the X-Scooters because I wanted a computer that may end up in a closet some day.

~ Jason

 

[meekal]

So is the reason for the longer bottom times in your opinion because of the depth averaging? Or are the longer bottom times a result of the computer being more flexible than the tables you're use to using?

The reason I ask is because if you're comparing the standard PADI tables to a computer (i.e. square profile vs. depth averaging), then I would agree with you. In that case, computers do give you longer bottom times, but you're comparing apples to oranges. As you know, the world of diving is always evolving, and there are better tables that make depth averaging quite simple. You just need to be open to some of the newer decompression models that take bubble mechanics into account (i.e. RGBM), and the tables those algorithms produce.

~ Jason

dang.... you "B" fast - you quote me before i can even edit my tyPoS.... hehehehe -

you're right - it is an apple2oranges comparison.... i LOVE my RGBM based SUUNTO Cobra - and having a thorough understanding of the how/why's of tables is paramount to your comfort in what your computer is 'telling' you... i scour every issue of my DAN Magazine and yes, even though my computer doesn't 'suggest it' - i do DEEP STOPS on every dive over 40' FSW. but it's still a whole lot easier to click a button or 2 and see what is / was / and gonna be....

http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/news/article.asp?newsid=514

plus; ya gotta admit..... it DOES make awfully pury graphs!

 

[darkpup]

dang.... you "B" fast - you quote me before i can even edit my tyPoS.... hehehehe -

you're right - it is an apple2oranges comparison.... i LOVE my RGBM based SUUNTO Cobra - and having a thorough understanding of the how/why's of tables is paramount to your comfort in what your computer is 'telling' you... i scour every issue of my DAN Magazine and yes, even though my computer doesn't 'suggest it' - i do DEEP STOPS on every dive over 40' FSW. but it's still a whole lot easier to click a button or 2 and see what is / was / and gonna be....

http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/news/article.asp?newsid=514

plus; ya gotta admit..... it DOES make awfully pury graphs!

You got me there. They do make nice graphs. I've been looking at getting one of those Sensus Pros http://reefnet.ca/products/sensus/ for just that. I could have a computer without actually using it on dives. Then I could avoid any hipocracy while poking fun at computers, right?

It would work great with my Mac.... crap, now I've done it. I'm probably going to get in trouble for not using a PC....

~ Jason